t even more memorable!</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Event Details: When and Where?</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f4cd.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Location:</strong> <a href=\"https://maps.app.goo.gl/rir2trT2GUuGb2kK8\">Synod Hall Mukono</a>, near Bishop’s Senior School<br /><strong><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f4c5.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Date:</strong> March 8, 2025<br /><strong><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f465.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Capacity: </strong>Over 400 attendees<br /><strong><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f39f.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Tickets:</strong> <a href=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/tickets/\">Buy Tickets Here</a> (Limited slots available—get yours now!)</p>\n\n\n\n<p><br /><a href=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/location/\">Our venue</a>, Synod Hall Mukono, is a spacious and well-equipped location with excellent lighting, ventilation, and accessibility. Its proximity to Mukono’s central business district makes it the perfect setting for an event of this magnitude.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Be a Part of Something Bigger: Sponsorship Opportunities</h2>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/files/2025/01/Sponsors.jpg\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p>WordCamp Mukono 2025 is made possible through the generosity of <a href=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/sponsors/\">sponsors</a> who believe in empowering the WordPress community. If your company or organization wants to gain exposure while supporting a great cause, we invite you to <a href=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/call-for-sponsors/\">become a sponsor!</a></p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Sponsorship offers unique benefits, including: </h4>\n\n\n\n<p><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/2705.png\" alt=\"✅\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <strong>Brand Visibility </strong>– Reach a targeted audience of WordPress professionals and enthusiasts. <br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/2705.png\" alt=\"✅\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <strong>Community Engagement</strong> – Connect with potential customers, partners, and talent. <br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/2705.png\" alt=\"✅\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <strong>Networking &amp; Recruitment </strong>– Identify and engage with skilled WordPress developers, designers, and marketers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Interested in sponsoring? Learn more here: <a href=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/call-for-sponsors/\">https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/call-for-sponsors/</a></strong></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center\">Accommodation &amp; Travel Tips</h2>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/files/2025/02/Accomodation-2.jpg\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Mukono offers a variety of accommodation options, from budget guesthouses to high-end hotels. If you’re traveling from outside Mukono, we recommend booking early to secure the best options near the venue. For more details, visit: <a href=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/accommodation-guide-for-visitors-to-mukono-town/\">Location Post</a></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Secure Your Spot – Get Your Ticket Today!</h2>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/files/2025/02/Tickets-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/tickets-now-available/\">Tickets for WordCamp</a> Mukono 2025 are now available! We offer different ticket categories, including:<br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f39f.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Regular Ticket – <strong>UGX 15,000. </strong>Each ticket includes access to all sessions, networking opportunities, swag, refreshments, and a truly unforgettable experience!<br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f39f.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Actual Cost Ticket – <strong>UGX 100,000. </strong>Each ticket includes access to all sessions, networking opportunities, swag, refreshments, and a truly unforgettable experience! A ticket for people who love and Support wordPress and want to ensure that the Event moves super smoothly.<br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f449.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Reserve your spot today: <a href=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/tickets/\">Click Here</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Join the WordCamp Mukono 2025 Movement!</strong><br />WordCamp Mukono 2025 is more than just an event—it’s a movement that celebrates WordPress, women in tech, and the power of community. Whether you&#8217;re a beginner, expert, entrepreneur, or enthusiast, there is something for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f4ac.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Let’s start the conversation! Use the official hashtags:</strong><br />#WCMukono25 #WordPressMukono #WPHeroes #WomenInWordPress</p>\n\n\n\n<p><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f4e7.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Contact Us: mukono@wordcamp.org<br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f310.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Official Website: <a href=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025\">https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/</a><br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f39f.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Tickets Info: <a href=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/tickets/\">Buy Tickets Here</a> (Limited slots available—get yours now!)<br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f91d.png\" alt=\"?\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Sponsorship: <a href=\"https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/call-for-sponsors-wordcamp-mukono/\">https://mukono.wordcamp.org/2025/call-for-sponsors-wordcamp-mukono/</a><br /><strong>See you in Mukono for an unforgettable WordPress celebration!</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 13 Feb 2025 08:53:20 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"Moses Cursor Ssebunya\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:17:\"Matt: Hash tables\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=137372\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:34:\"https://ma.tt/2025/02/hash-tables/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:405:\"<p>“You didn’t just come up with a cool hash table,” he remembers telling Krapivin. “You’ve actually completely wiped out a 40-year-old conjecture!” <a href=\"https://www.quantamagazine.org/undergraduate-upends-a-40-year-old-data-science-conjecture-20250210/\">There&#8217;s a delightful article on an undergraduate discovering an optimization in a very basic computer science principle</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 12 Feb 2025 22:03:25 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:52:\"Gravatar: Simplify Link Sharing With Smart Redirects\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2877\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2025/02/12/simplify-link-sharing-with-smart-redirects/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4108:\"<p>You know what&#8217;s better than easy-to-share links? Easy-to-share links on your own custom domain. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We just rolled out Smart Redirects for all Gravatar custom domains. Zero setup required.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>And right now, we&#8217;re offering free custom domains for your first year.</em> </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What Are Smart Redirects?</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>They&#8217;re simple shortcuts that make sharing your online presence a breeze. Add the name of any of your verified services to the end your domain:</p>\n\n\n\n<pre class=\"wp-block-preformatted\"><code>your-name.link/bluesky<br />your-name.link/linkedin<br />your-name.link/calendar</code></pre>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s it. Your domain automatically redirects to your connected accounts. No configuration. No DNS wizardry. Just connect your accounts to Gravatar and the redirects work instantly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These are perfect for email signatures, business cards, social media profiles, and more.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Simplified Payments With /pay</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s something cool: Smart Redirects make sharing payment links much nicer. Instead of dropping a long payment URL in your messages or emails, just use:</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-1 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<pre class=\"wp-block-preformatted\"><code>your-name.link/pay</code></pre>\n\n\n\n<p>This currently works with:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>PayPal</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Venmo</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Crypto currencies</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Custom (any link you want)</li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<img width=\"490\" height=\"374\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/cleanshot-2025-02-12-at-12.55.50402x.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2885\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>Just add your payment details to your Gravatar profile, and your /pay link automatically directs people to all of your preferred payment methods. Perfect for freelancers, creators, splitting the bill among friends, or anyone who needs to receive payments.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Free Domain? Tell Me More</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>For a limited time, claim your .link, .bio, or .social domain (or choose from other popular TLDs) through Gravatar. Just log in to your dashboard and look for the domain claim option at the top of your profile. Free for the first year. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Once you have your domain, Smart Redirects are automatically enabled. No extra steps needed.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Available Now</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Smart Redirects work with most major platforms including GitHub, LinkedIn, Bluesky, Mastodon, Tumblr, and many more. We&#8217;ve also added handy shortcuts for your calendar (/calendar), contact (/contact), and payment info (/pay).<br /></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Getting Started</h2>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Claim your free domain (if you haven&#8217;t already)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Connect your accounts in your Gravatar profile</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Start sharing your shorter, sweeter links</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<p>And fun fact: both <code><em>/twitter</em></code> and <code><em>/x</em></code> work for your X profile. We&#8217;ve got you covered either way.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Why Your Own Domain Matters</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Your domain is your identity on the open web. It&#8217;s not just for your Gravatar profile – use it everywhere to build your presence and own your digital footprint. And with Smart Redirects, it&#8217;s now even more useful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Want to see all the available redirects and learn more? Check out our <a href=\"https://support.gravatar.com/smart-redirects\">Smart Redirects guide</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Smart Redirects are live for all <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/custom-domains\">Gravatar custom domains</a>. And remember, domains are free for your first year. Go ahead, claim yours and give Smart Redirects a try!</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 12 Feb 2025 19:52:10 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:76:\"WPTavern: #156 – Derek Ashauer on Analytics Options and Privacy Challenges\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=187359\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:90:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/156-derek-ashauer-on-analytics-options-and-privacy-challenges\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:57075:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, analytics options and privacy challenges for WordPress site owners.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice. Or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have Derek Ashauer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Having spent over 15 years in the WordPress arena, Derek has transitioned from building client sites to creating specialized WordPress plugins. Today we get to hear about his journey creating Conversion Bridge, a tools specifically designed to streamline the process of implementing analytics platforms and conversion tracking on WordPress websites.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We start with an overview of analytics, tracing its evolution from the simple server logs of the early internet days, to the sophisticated data gathering mechanisms provided by Google Analytics and others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We explore how the introduction of European privacy laws has significantly impacted the data landscape, challenging marketers and businesses to adapt to a new era where data privacy is regarded differently in different locales.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Derek offers his perspectives on this rapidly changing field, discussing the rise of modern privacy focused analytics platforms like Fathom, Plausible and others. He explains how these technologies employ cookieless tracking techniques to respect user privacy, while still providing valuable insights for website owners.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We also address the problem of data accessibility and user privacy. Derek, sharing his personal views as a marketer, acknowledges the complexity of balancing effective marketing strategies with ethical data use. He explains his thoughts on why modern solutions might strike a better balance, ensuring that user data remains private, while allowing businesses to glean just the insights they need.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whether you are managing a WooCommerce store, or building sites for clients, Derek&#8217;s insights into conversion tracking will be of interest. He talks about some of the hurdles site builders face with traditional systems and how Conversion Bridge simplifies conversion tracking across various platforms and plugins without the need for extensive coding.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re an agency, developer, or digital marketer, this discussion will help equip you with the knowledge and strategies to navigate the ever evolving landscape of web analytics.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast. Where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Derek Ashauer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast by Derek Ashauer. How you doing, Derek?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:40] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> I am doing well, thank you so much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you very much for joining me. We&#8217;ve had various chats over the years, but this is going to be a chat that we&#8217;ve never had before. This is going to be all about analytics.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;ll talk about all of the different bits and pieces, perhaps get into the future of analytics, the past of analytics, who knows? But stay with us, dear listener. It&#8217;s going to be a really interesting conversation. I feel like things are at a bit of an inflection point, and people definitely have strong opinions on this, and I think that can often lie on geographical grounds, where you live in the world and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So before we get into that conversation, Derek, do you just want to give us a little potted bio? Tell us who you are.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:15] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> Yeah, my name&#8217;s Derek Ashauer, I&#8217;m in Colorado US. I&#8217;ve been in the WordPress community for, well, I guess I&#8217;ve been working with WordPress for about 15 years, I think. Doing client sites and things like that. So I&#8217;ve done the independent freelancer agency, but now I&#8217;ve moved to making WordPress plugins. So I have one for photographers called Sunshine Photo Cart.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But my big one that I&#8217;m working on lately is called Conversion Bridge, which really makes it easy to add analytics platforms to your WordPress website, and also make it really easy to do conversion tracking, which is something that a lot of agencies and people are building sites for clients just neglect to do. And one reason why is because it&#8217;s kind of a pain in the butt.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the goal is to make it a lot easier so that I can do it for myself, and my client sites that I&#8217;ve worked on, but also then to make it easier for everyone else. So that&#8217;s how I got the idea for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:02] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Prior to hitting the record button, Derek and I were saying that, you are on a journey with this, you know, you&#8217;re not putting yourself up here as the definitive authority. I think you were basically saying that a little while ago your knowledge was not that deep in this arena and you&#8217;ve really had to educate yourself. And I think it&#8217;s fair to say that you were trying to summarise it as you&#8217;re still learning.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So let&#8217;s have a conversation about this and see where we end up. The thought occurs to me that if we were to go back, oh gosh, I mean the internet, every time I say this sentence the internet does obviously get a little bit older, but let&#8217;s go for 20 years, something like that. I feel that if you went to a website, there wasn&#8217;t even the thought that there was any kind of analytics. Maybe there was some server log somewhere that was recording that, okay, we served up a page, but that was about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then at some point analytics software came along and very quickly started to leverage all of the existing technologies and became really, really sophisticated ever so quickly. You would copy and paste a code, and it was typically Google, I think that dominated the arena right from the outset. They offered a free service, Google Analytics. You could copy and paste one line of code. There was no barrier to entry to that technology. And it would give you all sorts of fascinating information really quickly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think everybody was happy with that status quo, but in the more recent past, let&#8217;s say decade or so, but definitely it seems to be ramping up at the moment. There seems to be concerns about who gets the data, why is this data necessary? Is this data consumable by, I don&#8217;t know, an American company looking at a European who&#8217;s browsing on a particular website and things like that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With all of this, just give us your overarching opinion on it, and then we can go from there. What&#8217;s the state of play at the moment with analytics? Where are we? The year 2025 at the moment. Do you have any sort of overarching insight into where analytics, in air quotes, is at the moment?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:55] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s a lot harder because of the European privacy laws for the analytics platforms to get the data that marketers and other people have been used to for a long time. Where people came from, you used to be able to get like exactly what search terms people were looking at and landed on your site and what they did. You know, if someone searched Fort Collins landscaper, local landscape company could see that that&#8217;s exactly what they searched, and then what that user did on their website from that search term. And that&#8217;s just kind of gone. That deep level of data is unfortunately not possible anymore to follow those type of European laws, and privacy restrictions and things like that. So there&#8217;s a lot of people who are struggling to get the data that they were used to. That&#8217;s kind of the short of it, I guess.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you think that we kind of let the horse escape from the barn a little bit, and we&#8217;re now just trying to get the horse back into the barn and get it under control again? And what I mean by that is, do you think that these technologies, the analytics and what have you, do you think it kind of just crept up upon us? There was this slow but inexorable extension of what analytics software could do. And all the while it felt like completely benign, you know, there&#8217;s no problem with it. How could anybody possibly make use of this in a way which might be harmful or, I don&#8217;t know, intrusive or what have you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the software became more and more clever. But then I think people, especially like you said on the European side of things, started to take a look at it and thought, hmm, it&#8217;s interesting, a lot of this data is going to, in many cases, big North American companies. Google, I suppose would be a perfect example, but you&#8217;ve obviously got other things like Facebook and what have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just try to maybe restore something a bit more where the user is in control, as opposed to these giant corporations being in control. So just trying to bring it back to the starting line, if you like, to the moment before the horse got out so that we can reestablish some rules.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, I don&#8217;t know. It sounds from what you were saying as if you&#8217;re kind of regretful that the analytics solutions can&#8217;t do what they once could. I suppose the European argument would be, well, that&#8217;s because it never really, with hindsight, we should never have let it get that far in the first place. What&#8217;s your thoughts on that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:07] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> I mean, I kind of see it. The way I often describe a lot of things is like a pendulum swing. In the beginning it went really far in one direction, we got all kinds of data, and then the laws popped up and now it feels like, we can&#8217;t get nearly enough data for advanced marketing, for large corporations that are really doing massive campaigns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then there&#8217;s the alternatives, Fathom, Plausible, Pirsch, you know, lots of great, Usermaven. There&#8217;s a lot of new alternative analytics platforms now that are out there, and now finding clever ways to claw back some of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s never going to be nearly as detailed as it was a decade ago, that was kind of like the heyday of marketing where you could get so much great data on stuff. But you know, so we had too much maybe in some people&#8217;s opinions, and then maybe there&#8217;s a bit of not enough, and now those companies are finding some ways to move maybe towards a middle ground of what works for everyone.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And as an American, I&#8217;m like, yeah, whatever. You saw that I visited these several websites in a row, I really don&#8217;t care. That never really bothered me, I haven&#8217;t understood the massive problem with it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Going through all this, I have learned, you know, maybe there&#8217;s a few spots where it would be good to protect that and maybe they don&#8217;t know that but, yeah, I&#8217;m the person that does accept all on every single website that I got to as a marketer, because I&#8217;m just like, yeah, great, I&#8217;ll give this website some data on me, I don&#8217;t mind.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, you&#8217;ve got a very open mind to all of that, haven&#8217;t you? And obviously, you are digging into this and your business is kind of largely tied up to that, so very understandable position to have.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You mentioned there several platforms, and you rattled them off one after another, Fathom and others. So a lot of these will be unfamiliar, I think, to this audience. What is the proposition?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it sounds like many of them are quite new. What is it that they bring to the table, and are these SaaS based products, or are in some cases a WordPress plugin? Or something that can install on your own hardware? What&#8217;s going on there? Just rattle off those names again and maybe just give us the low down on what they do, and how they&#8217;re getting into the market, and competing against giants like Google.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:01] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> Yeah, so there&#8217;s definitely some great new options and a lot of the initial ones were SaaS based. So there&#8217;s ones, like I said, Plausible, Fathom, Usermaven, Pirsch is another great one that I really enjoy. My plugin Conversion Bridging integrates with like 12 different analytics platforms, so there&#8217;s tons of them, and there&#8217;s still many more that I have on my list to do. So there&#8217;s lots of alternatives, which there weren&#8217;t any before, until Google Analytics 4 kind of came out and people were like, we don&#8217;t like GA4, and that opened the door for a lot of platforms.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But to get back to your question, yeah, one of the differences that they offer is they do what&#8217;s called cookieless tracking. So that&#8217;s one of the big things that the privacy laws in Europe were like, it was around cookies and tracking the cross websites. So that the user, they go to landscaper website, then they go, no, I&#8217;m going to go to Home Depot and I&#8217;m going to look for my own lawnmower, and now I&#8217;m going to price check against Lowe&#8217;s and all these different things. And Google Analytics could see where they were going, and all these different places. Or Facebook ads could track all these different websites that they went to and gauge this type of person and who they are and what they&#8217;re shopping for and things like that. So trying to crack down on that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, these alternative platforms do it without cookies. They have a way, a method, without getting too technical of just basically fingerprinting the user, and know for that one session when they&#8217;re on your website, what they&#8217;re doing. But then it stops there. It doesn&#8217;t go to all the other websites and give your entire four hours you were online, and all the different websites that you&#8217;re browsing to a company to let them know what you&#8217;re doing everywhere.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that&#8217;s kind of their main offering. And they are SaaS, you know, they&#8217;re just like Google Analytics, but they do cost. So that&#8217;s, they can be affordable. They&#8217;re anywhere, I think there&#8217;s some that are like $6, $7 a month for what a basic blog would ever need, up to $50 to, or even $100 a month depending on the amount of traffic, which is hard to reconcile for a lot of people who were used to free Google Analytics.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s hard to make that leap when you&#8217;re going, wait, I could do Google Analytics for free and there&#8217;s some countries, and even like a state or two in the US that have some laws where it&#8217;s like, erm, what&#8217;s the setup involved in that? There might be law violations, simply by using Google Analytics you could be violating some of those things in a couple countries.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But there are some setups you can do to try and make it work with European privacy laws and stuff. Takes some extra work. But it&#8217;s a challenge. Is it worth it? We&#8217;ve been so used to, for 20 years, for having free analytics to then now suddenly switch and pay for analytics can be hard for some site owners.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or as if you&#8217;re an agency doing that to convince your client&#8217;s like, well, we should actually start paying for this. And because you get 200,000 visits a month, it&#8217;s going to cost you $100 a month. They go, or I could use the free version. Yeah, well, I&#8217;ll just stick to the free version. So it is, it&#8217;s a hard conversation to have. When is it worthwhile? It just really depends on, I mean, you&#8217;ve got to really try it out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:44] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I suppose no matter how wonderful the staff at Google are, they&#8217;re not in the business of losing money. And so I&#8217;m guessing that at some point the pendulum does swing in Google&#8217;s favor. So what might be free at the point of use, so in other words, you download a snippet from Google, and you put it into the back end of your website, or you pay, let&#8217;s say $20 a month, or $50 a month, or whatever. I&#8217;m guessing that Google are doing quite well, let&#8217;s say, in terms of the data that they gather, and the way that they can use that themselves. Or, I don&#8217;t know if they sell that data onto any other brokers or what have you. But presumably there&#8217;s that concern.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just going back to what you said about these other, and I&#8217;m going to use modern platforms, let&#8217;s go for that, the ones that you mentioned. You said fingerprinting, and I&#8217;ve heard this phrase before, and I have the merest idea of what that means. So Google Analytics traditionally came about with a cookie, and we get what that is. But what are the ways around that, that fingerprinting, well, essentially, what is fingerprinting? What are some examples of how that works?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:40] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s a term that I just use in this moment. It&#8217;s not necessarily a term that you&#8217;ll see as you go around, it&#8217;s just the word that came out. But it&#8217;s just a way to uniquely identify somebody through various different points. You check these five different things about a person, and because of exactly what they are, those five elements, then we can say, that&#8217;s this person. So that&#8217;s kind of, each platform, I call them alternative platforms, you said modern platforms, they have their slightly different way of doing it, but they have their way of identifying without using cookies.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the traditional way is like Google Analytics, you set a cookie, random value in the browser, and then every time they go to a new page, you just check for that cookie and that value. That&#8217;s how we know they are, because that&#8217;s how we know who they are. Again, the modern platforms are doing it every time the page loads, it&#8217;s saying, who is this again? Let&#8217;s check these five points. I think sometimes it&#8217;s browser, it&#8217;s various different elements that they&#8217;ll check to then determine who that person is, and then know who you are as you go down the path on the website, but it&#8217;s not setting cookies to do that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So what kind of information might it be? I mean, I can imagine an obvious one would be things like, okay, what browser are you using, for example? That might be one indicator, and then if you match that with another indicator, and then a third one, and a fourth one, over four or five different indicators, you are going to be, well, what are the chances that that&#8217;s a different person?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:58] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> General location, stuff like that, yeah. Using this specific browser, this version of their browser. In my stuff, I haven&#8217;t fully identified what those platforms are actually using. I&#8217;ve just kind of, at this point left it. They do cookieless tracking, they have a way of doing it, okay great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some are better than others. To be honest, there are, Fathom has improved this. I know it was a struggle when I started Conversion Bridge about a year ago. For example, when someone landed on your page and then they did a conversion, say they fill out a form or made a purchase 10 pages later, those two weren&#8217;t associated with, because it was just one page view at a time, wholly independent things. They couldn&#8217;t tell that you are that person on that page view, and that person on that page view. I actually did this, I think last week just to check in on them, and it actually did finally say, okay, yeah, that was the same person. That came in and did that. So yeah, they&#8217;re finding ways to make it work and better identify those across one website.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, is the promise of these platforms though that they are different, or are they trying without cookies to get back to the point where cookies were? In other words, a cookie, until it was cleared out, could literally follow you everywhere. You know, it would know which website you&#8217;d been to, and could last for a long, long time and all of those concerns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Is the intention of these other analytics platforms to sort of step away from that and say, okay, we&#8217;re going to track you on this one domain. So if you&#8217;ve got example.com as your domain, and it&#8217;s an e-commerce store, whilst you&#8217;re there, our platform will keep an eye on you, and we&#8217;ll learn if you have gone through a bunch of pages, and whether you&#8217;ve converted and bought a thing or not. But once you step away from that domain, that&#8217;s it, we are done with you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or do you get the intention that they are somehow just, humans always figure out a way, right? If we give them enough time, they&#8217;ll figure out a way. Is the intention for these other platforms, do you perceive that they would like to get to the point where cookies were?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:45] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> No. They&#8217;re number one selling point, I think if you went to the homepage of every single one of them is they do privacy first analytics, is like the banner thing. That&#8217;s what they&#8217;re offering. And that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s so much bigger in Europe than it is here in the US and North America and stuff like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But, yeah, that&#8217;s their main thing, their privacy focused analytics. Google Analytics alternatives that are privacy focused is their main draw. I think someone reminded me of, Katie Keith from Barn2, she reminded me of the story from Fathom. They specifically sent Google Analytics a cake to thank them for being so bad at what they do that they allowed them to create a whole industry as an alternative to them. Stuff like that. So, I think they&#8217;re trying to do the privacy focused stuff, and then backfill in the features to give people as much data as they possibly can that they were used to in Google Analytics.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You said earlier, and we&#8217;ll just touch on this briefly, you said earlier that, the implication of what you said, and you may not have meant this, but I&#8217;ll say it as if you are saying it, and then you can criticise whatever I say. It sounds like, if you could rewind the clock and get rid of the European legislation and what have you, you would do that, and you&#8217;d be happy with that position. You are okay with being tracked and all bets are off. So firstly, let&#8217;s address that. Would you be okay with all of that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:03] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> I think there&#8217;s got to be a balance between the two. I get that there&#8217;s, you know, for me it&#8217;s a thing. I don&#8217;t care if you know all the different things of where I went. You know, you see those futuristic movies where it&#8217;s individualised ads on video screens, and I&#8217;m like, that&#8217;s actually kind of cool. It helps give me gift ideas for my wife, stuff like that, because I&#8217;m a terrible gift giver. So, yeah, recommend me some products. I wouldn&#8217;t have thought to do that. I&#8217;ve bought things off of ads I&#8217;ve seen on Facebook or Twitter, things like that. Because I was like, that was a great gift for my dad. I never would&#8217;ve purposely found that if I hadn&#8217;t been shown that ad because for whatever reason, so I&#8217;m not against that personally.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:37] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> My guess though is that it&#8217;s not really that that&#8217;s the problem in most people&#8217;s minds. It&#8217;s like, who&#8217;s holding that data, and where does that data get moved to? Just the idea that, as an example, there might be a data broker firm who may purchase that data. And in some cases, let&#8217;s imagine that you ended up on a website which you regret going to. You can read into that, dear listener, whatever you like. But you end up somewhere and all of a sudden connections are made between you as a person. And you can also imagine scenarios in which, I don&#8217;t know, data gets linked from various data brokers and they start to create an impression of who you are.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I can imagine scenarios where that could get out of hand, and potentially come back to bite you as an individual. So I suppose there&#8217;s a little bit of that muddled up in it. It&#8217;s not that the business, the WooCommerce store or whatever, is going to have any nefarious reason to have that data. Or wish to know where you&#8217;ve come from, where you&#8217;re going to, what ad you might have clicked on, what were the previous page that you came from, and so on and so forth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s more that there just seems to be this fairly bizarre industry of data brokers who managed to get their hands on this data, and at that moment, you don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going to happen with it. And we&#8217;ve all made mistakes in life, but we can erase them just with the passage of time. But with the advent of the internet, some of those mistakes might stick with us for a long time. Does that make any sense?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:04] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> No, it makes sense. I mean, I could see how someone would visit, again, visit the landscaper website, and all of a sudden they did not know that the fact that they went to a landscaper website was sent to Meta. They&#8217;re like, well, I didn&#8217;t know that was, I was going to a landscaper website. Why does Meta need to know that I was checking out who was going to cut my grass?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I get that in some regards, that there&#8217;s just not a knowledge of where things are going. I think it&#8217;s a pretty safe thing to say that cookie popups, that was just not the right way to go about it. That&#8217;s just made things, made the internet significantly worse. What are the solutions to give website owners the data they need to make good marketing decisions?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because otherwise, I mean, I think of it even on a bigger macro level that that landscaper, if they don&#8217;t know any of the ads are working or what&#8217;s going on or what people are doing, then they don&#8217;t know what ads, where to spend their money that works best. Now they have to increase their costs to cover the blanket marketing that they have to do because they don&#8217;t know exactly what attribution, what marketing channel is actually working for them. So to pay for the 50 different marketing channels they have to do, they have to increase the cost for everybody.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if they were able to narrow it down and say, well, we know that mailers and these Google ads are actually our best ways to make money, we don&#8217;t need to spend on email newsletter, or all these different things, our marketing spends only 5% of what it would be otherwise, that means we don&#8217;t have to charge as much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it goes to bigger macro level discussions of economics of, in some ways for the consumer, it could be better for these companies to have some data about you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I understand what you&#8217;re saying though. It is like, again, I don&#8217;t want Meta to have it, I want the landscaper company to have it. That&#8217;s okay. And that&#8217;s the line that I think a lot of people, I think would agree that, yeah, I don&#8217;t want Meta to have that data but, yeah, I&#8217;m okay with my local landscaper having the data so they knew what ads worked and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And those privacy or the modern analytics platforms do at least get you a good amount of that data. So they are some good alternatives to that. But it&#8217;s not going to get you, those mega corporations are not going to get the, okay, well they clicked on our ad, they went to these other places, then came back to our site, and then did this and they came back to site, and then did this and came back to our site. And to get those really deep analytics. They&#8217;re not going to and that&#8217;s the challenge. But I would say, the WordPress space, that&#8217;s 90% of people are going to do fantastic with modern analytics platforms and get the data that they need.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:29] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s really interesting because you are owning the domain, you&#8217;re running the domain, you probably don&#8217;t have any interest in brokering the data out to Facebook anyway. So what you can get out of that is probably useful. We&#8217;ll dig into that in a moment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m just curious, being a resident in the USA, and I&#8217;m obviously, you can tell by my accent, I&#8217;m based in the UK, we may have, and I don&#8217;t know if we do, we may have a very different experience of browsing the internet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I, for my part, if I was to open up a brand new browser, clean out everything that&#8217;s ever happened in that browser and start again, and browse around a whole variety of websites, I am inundated with cookie banners. Go to any large property, I am going to see cookie banners a lot, a very significant amount of the time because that&#8217;s how it goes over here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They can be confusing. They can be deliberately confusing. And in some cases they can be eye wateringly difficult to understand. The language is inverted so that you are kind of clicking on something you didn&#8217;t intend to click on. There can be so many options. I mean, it is really remarkable how many options there can be. You open up this little popup and you scroll, and you scroll, and you scroll, and you scroll, and you could do that whole scroll thing for like a whole minute and you still haven&#8217;t run out of options. And so we are living through this, and I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s the same where you are, I don&#8217;t know if you encounter any of this stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:51] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> I definitely see them, but it&#8217;s not on every single website because those cookie banners can be configured so that they can be region specific. So if someone is located in a space where there are no laws around that, then just don&#8217;t show on the banner. And I happen to be in that one. So there&#8217;s some that aren&#8217;t as complex that have that feature, and so I still will see those. But I mean, yeah, it&#8217;s not every single website. Honestly not sure how many, but I would say maybe 50%.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I mean, if I was going to a website which is just purely, I don&#8217;t know, informational in content, it&#8217;s like a blog basically, then I&#8217;m sure I won&#8217;t see those kind of things because, what possible thing could they be doing? But if it&#8217;s a website where there&#8217;s some sort of login option or an option where they clearly are using analytics and they&#8217;re intending to sell that on, you do get bombarded with, there&#8217;s so many things that you can opt into and opt out of. It&#8217;s bizarre.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:40] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s a challenge. And it&#8217;s definitely an area that I am working on with my plugin and stuff, and trying to wrap my head around and understand to help guide people on it. But that&#8217;s one great thing about like the modern ones. For example, if you use Plausible, you do not need a cookie banner because of Plausible. You don&#8217;t need one. It doesn&#8217;t set cookies. It doesn&#8217;t use cookies. So just because you have analytics doesn&#8217;t mean you have to have a cookie banner.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that&#8217;s one thing I think is something that some people may not understand. You may need it for other reasons, depending on what you have going on your site. But there are sites where you just, I think there&#8217;s a lot of sites that have cookie banners that don&#8217;t actually need them because they&#8217;re so terrified of the EU cookie laws or those privacy laws that they&#8217;re like, it&#8217;s better to be safe than sorry. Lets just throw it up there and put it on there, CYA type stuff, cover your ass. Let&#8217;s just put it on there so that we don&#8217;t have to worry about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But Google Analytics is a little like, probably should but, you know, if you are using one of those alternatives, that analytics platform, just that itself does not mean you have to have a cookie banner. And so it&#8217;s worth investigating to see if you could switch to alternatives. Some of them have free plans that you could stay within for a website, have your clients set up their own account. And if they have very small usage then use their free plan, and stick under that limit. And then you don&#8217;t even need a cookie banner on their site. And that can help annoy their visitors less. It&#8217;s something definitely worth investigating.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:04] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think what I&#8217;ve noticed is that, and I could be wrong about this, my intuition though, because I see the same UI often. The cookie banner is clearly provided by the same company. Everything is the same apart from the choices that you can make, but obviously at some point they&#8217;ve ticked boxes and what have you. And it does feel a little bit like that. We don&#8217;t have the capacity to figure out what we really need to do, so what we&#8217;ll do is just enable every single option. Here&#8217;s all the choices that we could possibly provide.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And of course that itself, that feels very self-defeating. Looking at it from the end user perspective, no matter what you think about the legislation and the merits of it, the fact that every single one of us is being caught up in this sort of dragnet of clicking away, rejecting cookies and what have you. That does seem like something which is not a good experience. I mean, I don&#8217;t know how many hours humanity wastes every day rejecting cookie banners.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:57] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> I mean, yeah, the cookie banners is a whole other thing. In my opinion it should be, if you&#8217;re going to do it, it should be in the browser. There should be a setting in the browser and the analytics code snippet that you have obeys the browser setting so that there&#8217;s not, there should be no need for independent, every single website owner to do their own remediation of, you know, through cookie banners of doing all this kind of stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s bonkers to me when every single website, if every single website needs to follow this, then put it at the browser level. You can just configure in your browser, in Chrome, say, I want to accept marketing cookies and I want to not accept these types of cookies or whatever, and then call it done. And every website you go to then just includes Google Analytics, includes whatever thing. It just can look at the browser settings and follow that, and you&#8217;re done. And it saves everyone thousands of dollars, hours of headache and all this kind of stuff, and it is what it is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It sounds like a very sensible position. I&#8217;m just wondering, is that a clarion call that is in the industries that you are following, the analytics and the marketing side of things, is that something that&#8217;s gaining momentum or no?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:59] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> I haven&#8217;t heard of any movement to actually make that happen. I don&#8217;t know why I haven&#8217;t looked into it too much, but I haven&#8217;t read in the stuff that I&#8217;ve come across and reading and learning about it on my journey through this and educating myself about it. To me it seems like a pretty simple approach.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Let&#8217;s imagine a scenario in which cookies across the board are just outlawed universally for this kind of thing in the future. And obviously that&#8217;s not something that you would desire, but let&#8217;s just imagine a scenario where that was the case.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As you call them, these modern solutions, if we were to bind that, let&#8217;s say into WooCommerce website, and obviously with Conversion Bridge, you&#8217;re all about the conversion. Does somebody arriving at the website end up doing a particular action? Do they purchase something? Do they end up at a landing page after a particular transaction has occurred, or something along those lines?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>How credible do those things feel to you now? And it said that a year ago you couldn&#8217;t do it with this particular platform, and now you can. Does it feel like that whole conversion industry, you know, conversion tracking in particular, does it feel like it&#8217;s fighting a losing battle? Or does it feel like with those modern analytics companies that you&#8217;re still in the game. You can still get the data that you probably need all be it, it&#8217;s not going off to some giant third party?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:11] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> So the first answer that came to mind when you&#8217;re asking that is, for example, in my testing of some of the various modern platforms, even on those, you&#8217;re getting 70% of the conversions actually getting tracked. And that could be for various reasons of JavaScript blockers, ad blockers, or things like that. And that&#8217;s one of the reasons why I&#8217;m really focusing on doing API based tracking, so that it&#8217;s server to server, not aligned to JavaScript. Because server to server, behind like, through PHP and APIs and stuff like that. If you can track what people are doing, then it&#8217;s going to be a lot more accurate actually.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s one thing that I&#8217;m working on for my plugin is so that whatever analytics platform you&#8217;re using, it can be as accurate as possible. But yeah, I think you&#8217;re trying to hint at it, are these other modern platforms going to go the way of Google and try and sell data? Is that kind of what you mean?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> No, what I was meaning was, do you feel that they are credible in that, okay, so let&#8217;s imagine that I own a WooCommerce store, I&#8217;ve been using Google forever and it&#8217;s been giving me this incredibly valuable data, and I really don&#8217;t want to let go of that. But I feel, for one reason or another, maybe that&#8217;s legislation, or just a moral compulsion that I feel I have, I want to move over to these platforms. Am I throwing away a ton of useful data that I&#8217;ll never get back? Or are these modern platforms slowly but surely offering a solution, which gives me more or less what I need.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:31] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> Yeah. From my perspective, what I&#8217;m seeing is when Google Analytics 4 came out, they haven&#8217;t been able to get the same level of data they used to 10 years ago with UA, Universal Analytics. Which was what we were, most of us were used to when we said Google Analytics, that&#8217;s what we had for a very, very long time, and then Google Analytics 4 came out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I would say the platforms, some are better than others. There&#8217;s definitely some that have a lot more advanced features than others. Fathom, for example, is pretty straightforward. I wouldn&#8217;t say it&#8217;s very well geared towards detailed conversion tracking and getting good, detailed, in-depth insights. It&#8217;s good at getting page views, where they came from, what country they&#8217;re at. Something you would hand to a client so they could look at a nice little dashboard.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And Universal Analytics, it used to be great. I used to say, hey, here&#8217;s Universal Analytics, go check it out. Didn&#8217;t even have to walk them through any of it. They could look at the screen, understand the data, it made sense. Now, Google Analytics 4 is a cluster. It is for professional level marketers, and that is it at this point. You have to really know the software. There&#8217;s week long classes on how to use Google Analytics 4 these days, because it is so overwhelmingly complex. And I think it went almost too far in that regard.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But anyway, I think these modern platforms can get most site owners the data they need to make good decisions about, are my ads working if I&#8217;m doing Facebook ads? Or am I doing Google ads? Are they working for me? You know, if I&#8217;m doing link building from another site and you can tag those same UTM codes, that might be something, if you&#8217;re familiar. There are codes that you can add to the URL, with the little query and the query variables, to kind of identify that this link came from this source.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then that can track that user throughout the process. You know, the add to cart, checkout and complete the purchase. And then know that that user came from that UTM tracking code from either somewhere on your own website or from an external website. So it can do all those great things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So for a lot of mom and pop, WooCommerce stores I think can get a lot of great, useful data. It&#8217;s really when you are more an enterprise company, and maybe you&#8217;re doing like a million dollars a week in ad spend, you&#8217;re going to want something that is really, these crazy reports that you can run. And it&#8217;s more about the reporting than anything that you can do in GA 4 that maybe these modern platforms can&#8217;t quite do yet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so, like I said, for my clients, any of the clients that I&#8217;ve built sites for over the last 20 years, they don&#8217;t need any of that stuff. They would be very happy with the reports from, say, Plausible. Many of them would be happy with even Fathom, which I said, which isn&#8217;t the most conversion oriented platform. Even they would be great with those ones.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:14] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So your plugin, which is called Conversion Bridge, what does it do? It feels from the outside as if it&#8217;s almost like a Zapier for analytics meets website, if you know what I mean. You bind your website to the analytics platform, and then you can give it, I don&#8217;t know, if this, then that kind of functionality to figure out, okay, what are the conversions?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And also it just feels like you are stripping out the technical burden of learning those platforms. Is that basically what it&#8217;s doing or have I missed the target?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:46] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> That&#8217;s very close. The idea is, when I was building sites for clients, I didn&#8217;t set up any conversion tracking for a lot of them. One, because it&#8217;s just the cost, because you go buy Gravity Forms well, this site we&#8217;re going to use WS Form. Well, this site we&#8217;re going to use Ninja Forms, or this site we&#8217;re using WooCommerce, this other one we&#8217;re going to use this other, you know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s so many different ways that you could do a form, do a purchase. Page builders, what button? How do I add a click tracking? Like, every time someone clicks on the buy now button on my homepage and goes to that. So we want to really track all this kind of stuff. It was a challenge of, how did you add that to your WordPress site? And so oftentimes it just didn&#8217;t happen because it was such a pain in the butt to do it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So what Conversion Bridge tries to do is makes it easy to add the analytics tracking codes. A lot of people just cut and paste it into the header, footer, code snippets, type plugins and all this kind of stuff. That is a way to do it. It&#8217;s not really the ideal way. But it does allow you to quickly and easily add one of, I think I have 12 different analytics platforms, whether it&#8217;s Google Analytics, Fathom, all that kind of stuff. Toggle, copy and paste your just like little ID number. And then the analytics code has been added to the site where it needs to. Make sure it does it for the right users. Like, I don&#8217;t want to track admin users, let&#8217;s make sure we don&#8217;t track admin users. Stuff like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the real benefit is, is that conversion tracking. So say you have a form that you&#8217;re using, and it&#8217;s just a simple, yes, add conversion tracking, done. That&#8217;s all I had to do. Click a toggle. I didn&#8217;t have to think about code snippets. How do I do it? Researching the form plugin, where does it need to get output? When does it need to get output? All this kinda stuff, it just was a pain in the butt.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then the real benefit for agencies is that, regardless of what site they&#8217;re doing, whether they&#8217;re using Bricks Builder or Beaver Builder, using WS Form, Gravity Forms, it&#8217;s all one plugin that works for any site that you would need, because it integrates with 50 plus different WordPress plugins to just have one click toggle conversion tracking.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And websites really need conversion tracking. They need to know what users are doing on their site. And I think it&#8217;s a huge value that especially professional site builders could add to their plugin stack that they put on every client site to just, oh, all I have to do is copy, paste the little ID number from Fathom, and then I just need to check one little box in WS Form, and suddenly I have, not only analytics on the site, but I&#8217;m also tracking every single form submission.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we can see where they&#8217;re coming from and which ones generate the most contact form leads on this website that is for a landscaper to fill out forms and get lead quotes. And now I can tell my client, these resources, whether it&#8217;s this external blog that linked to us, oh my God, we got mentioned in this blog, and all of a sudden they&#8217;re generating 50 leads a month from us. We need to do more outreach to all these blogs. And to really understand where your leads are coming from. It&#8217;s a huge value to add to client sites.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I have a couple of questions following on from that. The first one is, have you got any examples, like curious examples, maybe unexpected examples? Because everybody gets the, okay, I want to convert, I want to track that a person arrived at the website, looked at this product and then ended up buying it, you know? Brilliant.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But are there any quirky ones that people have reached out to you that they&#8217;ve used and you thought, oh gosh, I never imagined people would want to track that conversion?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:52] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> Not yet. It is pretty straightforward, you know, the things that you need to track. Form submissions, email newsletter signups are a good one. I mean purchases, stuff like that. What buttons on your page? You know, maybe you have a homepage and you want to know which button on that page actually got them to go to the buy now?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So maybe you have one in the main banner. Maybe you have one near the FAQ section. Maybe you have one near the testimonials. Which one actually got people to actually go to that page. So button tracking, link tracking is good ones. Yeah, there&#8217;s not too many surprises on that regard.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And then the other one is about the plugins that you work with. So, and again, it sounds like your UVP really is that, look, we&#8217;ve looked at how their plugin works, how the code works, and you just tick the button. You say, I&#8217;ve got WS Form, I&#8217;ve got Gravity Forms, or whatever it may be, and now it&#8217;s just done. That&#8217;s part of the deal. You&#8217;re buying it so that you don&#8217;t have to do any coding.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:45] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> Yeah, because that&#8217;s, you know, what everyone wants these days. There&#8217;s no code. And they don&#8217;t even want to, even cutting and pasting code snippets. Before it was, a lot of plugins were like, add this, you had to use this hook, and then add this code. I mean, they provided this snippet, and then you had to kind of customise it and all this kinda stuff. It&#8217;s no. Just toggle and it&#8217;s done.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, like for WooCommerce, it&#8217;ll send all the detailed data about the purchase. What product they purchased. How much it cost. What the order total was. So you can get all that good data in there so you can do some advanced reporting in Google Analytics or even Plausible and some other, Pirsch, and stuff like that. So these alternatives you can do as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> No code solution. Yeah, that&#8217;s nice. And the other one I suppose would be, where do you feel your audience is? Is it kind of agencies, or do you have customers who are, I don&#8217;t know, just building their own website and really don&#8217;t have any technical background? Or is it more, like I said, is it more kind of agencies who are deploying this for their clients and they have an understanding of how to set these things up?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:39] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> You know, I&#8217;m doing my own market research and learning that as a business owner of how to do your, what is ICP? Ideal Customer Profile. And I&#8217;m kind of identifying that it, I think agencies would, so far, I think are the top of the list.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I know there&#8217;s some people that have bought it that are single site owners, but then I&#8217;ve learned, you know, they bought a one site license, but then I learned that they were just trying it on one site to see how it worked.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And they&#8217;re like, okay, yeah, this makes sense, and then they&#8217;re going to upgrade to, you know, a 20 site license because then they&#8217;re like, now I&#8217;m going to use this on all my client sites. This is what I&#8217;ve noticed those one site license purchases have been so far. So yeah, I think agencies do get the best of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it&#8217;s also a great tool to try out because I can actually, and I have it on my development test site, but I can enable 12 different analytics platforms at once. It&#8217;s obviously not something that you would do, but you technically could. And it&#8217;s great because you can actually test different things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Say, if you&#8217;re using Google Analytics, I want to test out Plausible. Let me try it out. Well, let me just add Google Analytics and Plausible, and everywhere you&#8217;ve checked that box on WS Form to do conversion tracking, it&#8217;ll send it to every single platform for you. You don&#8217;t have to then do a different snippet or code for, okay, now let me cut, do this snippet for WS Form in Plausible. Do this snippet for WooCommerce and Plausible. This snippet for Google Analytics and WooCommerce. It just takes care of all that for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you could try, do the free trial for a week for three or four different analytics platforms. Look at the data. Okay, we ran it for a week, let&#8217;s see which one I actually do like. So it&#8217;s one little side benefit. I allowed multiple analytics platforms to make it easy for me to develop, but then I quickly realised, this is actually an advantage to test out these different platforms and see if I can get good data, and data that is usable without losing Google Analytics data while you keep maintaining that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:13] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It feels like there&#8217;s very few parts of our industry where politics gets in. There&#8217;s just no politics in the kind of things that I deal with. You know, what I mean by that, international politics. Not the kind of politics within the kind of baseball of WordPress, but the international politics.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It feels like this is a bit of a moving target at the moment. And it&#8217;d be curious to see if we were to do this episode again in a year&#8217;s time, whether or not the sand has shifted, and you&#8217;ve had to pivot your product because it&#8217;s moved in one direction or another. Yeah, just absolutely fascinating.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I wish you all the best. Just before we wrap it up, where do people find you? What&#8217;s the URL or the social network or both? Where can we find you? And of course, Conversion Bridge.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:55] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> Yeah, conversionbridgewp.com is the Conversion Bridge plugin, and then I am pretty active on Twitter. You can find me @derekashauer on Twitter or X, I guess, sorry.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:05] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. As is always the case, I will drop all of the links for anything that we discuss today, including the host of analytics platforms and what have you that we mentioned. I&#8217;ll put all of those into the show notes. If you head to wptavern.com, search for the episode with Derek in, all of the links will be right there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, Derek, it just remains for me to say thank you very much for chatting to me today. I really appreciate it. It.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:24] <strong>Derek Ashauer:</strong> It&#8217;s been a pleasure. Thanks for having me on.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://x.com/derekashauer\">Derek Ashauer</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Having spent over 15 years in the WordPress arena, Derek has transitioned from building client sites to creating specialised WordPress plugins. Today, we get to hear about his journey creating <a href=\"https://conversionbridgewp.com/\">Conversion Bridge</a>, a tool specifically designed to streamline the process of implementing analytics platforms and conversion tracking on WordPress websites.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We start with an overview of analytics, tracing its evolution from the simple server logs of the early internet days, to the sophisticated data gathering mechanisms provided by Google Analytics and others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We explore how the introduction of European privacy laws has significantly impacted the data landscape, challenging marketers and businesses to adapt to a new era, where data privacy is regarded differently in different locales.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Derek offers his perspectives on this rapidly changing field, discussing the rise of modern, privacy-focused analytics platforms like Fathom, Plausible, and others. He explains how these technologies employ cookieless tracking techniques to respect user privacy, while still providing valuable insights for website owners.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We also address the problem of data accessibility and user privacy. Derek, sharing his personal views as a marketer, acknowledges the complexity of balancing effective marketing strategies with ethical data use. He explains his thoughts on why modern solutions might strike a better balance, ensuring that user data remains private while allowing businesses to glean just the insights they need.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whether you&#8217;re managing a WooCommerce store or building sites for clients, Derek’s insights into conversion tracking will be of interest. He talks about some of the hurdles site builders face with traditional systems and how Conversion Bridge simplifies conversion tracking across various platforms and plugins without the need for extensive coding.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re an agency, developer, or digital marketer, this discussion will help equip you with knowledge and strategies to navigate the ever-evolving landscape of web analytics.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://x.com/derekashauer\">Derek on X</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.sunshinephotocart.com/\"> Sunshine Photo Cart</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://conversionbridgewp.com/\">Conversion Bridge</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://usefathom.com/\">Fathom Analytics</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://plausible.io/\">Plausible Analytics</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://pirsch.io/\">Pirsch Analytics</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://usermaven.com/\">Usermaven</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/10089681?hl=en\">Introducing the next generation of Analytics, Google Analytics 4</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 12 Feb 2025 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:70:\"Do The Woo Community: Cami MacNamara Joins the Do the Woo Hosting Team\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=90706\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/cami-macnamara-joins-the-do-the-woo-hosting-team/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:330:\"Here at Do the Woo we are thrilled to announce that Cami McNamara is joining WP Agency Tracks as a co-host with Marcus. Cami, a long-time WordPress professional and the founder of WebCami Agency, brings years of experience in running a successful solo agency. As the creator of the Web Designer Habits newsletter and the [&#8230;]\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 12 Feb 2025 13:24:23 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55:\"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.7.2 Maintenance Release\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=18445\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2025/02/wordpress-6-7-2-maintenance-release/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8485:\"<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress 6.7.2 is now available!</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This minor release includes <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/6-7-2/\">35 bug fixes</a>, addressing issues affecting multiple components including the block editor, HTML API, and Customize.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.7.2 is a short-cycle release. The next major release will be <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-8/\">version 6.8</a> planned for April 15, 2025.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have sites that support automatic background updates, the update process will begin automatically.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.7.2.zip\">download WordPress 6.7.2 from WordPress.org</a>, or visit your WordPress Dashboard, click “Updates”, and then click “Update Now”. For more information on this release, please <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/wordpress-version/version-6-7-2\">visit the HelpHub site</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Thank you to these WordPress contributors</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This release was led by <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin/\">Aaron Jorbin</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.7.2 would not have been possible without the contributions of the following people. 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Bravo</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/poena\">Carolina Nymark</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/coquardcyr\">Cyrille</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/danielpost\">Daniel Post</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/darerodz\">darerodz</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dpcalhoun\">David Calhoun</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/get_dave\">David Smith</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dmsnell\">Dennis Snell</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhewercorus\">dhewercorus</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dd32\">Dion Hulse</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dougwollison\">Doug Wollison</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix\">Ella</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/im3dabasia1\">Eshaan Dabasiya</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiankaegy\">Fabian Kägy</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gaambo\">Fabian Todt</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/flixos90\">Felix Arntz</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ffffelix\">Felix Renicks</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/franciscabusas22\">Francis Cabusas</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/frankbiganski\">Frank B.</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mamaduka\">George Mamadashvili</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ghinamt\">ghinamt</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/glynnquelch\">Glynn Quelch</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gziolo\">Greg Ziółkowski</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jameskoster\">James Koster</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jsnajdr\">Jarda Snajdr</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb\">Jb Audras</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jdnd\">jdnd</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeryj\">jeryj</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson\">Joe Dolson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joemcgill\">Joe McGill</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jonsurrell\">Jon Surrell</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosj\">Jonathan Desrosiers</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juanwp22\">juanwp22</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jrf\">Juliette Reinders Folmer</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/karthickmurugan\">Karthick</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mt8biz\">Kazuto Takeshita</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ryelle\">Kelly Choyce-Dwan</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ketanniruke\">Ketan Niruke</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/0mirka00\">Lena Morita</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/levskipg\">levskipg</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/maciejmackowiak\">Maciej Ma?kowiak</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/santosguillamot\">Mario Santos</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mboynes\">Matthew Boynes</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mayanktripathi32\">Mayank Tripathi</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/czapla\">Michal Czaplinski</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mcsf\">Miguel Fonseca</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/presstoke\">Mitchell Austin</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mreishus\">mreishus</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mukesh27\">Mukesh Panchal</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/assassinateur\">Nadir Seghir a11n</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/narenin\">Narendra Sishodiya</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nareshbheda\">Naresh Bheda</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/neotrope\">neotrope</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ndiego\">Nick Diego</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oglekler\">Olga Gleckler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/parthvataliya\">Parth vataliya</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy\">Pascal Birchler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paullb\">paullb</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peterwilsoncc\">Peter Wilson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pitamdey\">Pitam Dey</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/redkite\">redkite</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rishavdutta\">Rishav Dutta</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/robertstaddon\">robertstaddon</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rvoigt\">rvoigt</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mi5t4n\">Sagar Tamang</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sainathpoojary\">Sainath Poojary</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/seanlanglands\">seanlanglands</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/SergeyBiryukov\">Sergey Biryukov</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/coffee2code/\">Scott Reilly</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shyamkariya\">Shyam Kariya</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/smerriman\">smerriman</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sabernhardt\">Stephen Bernhardt</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sukhendu2002\">Sukhendu Sekhar Guria</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/TobiasBg\">TobiasBg</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hellofromTonya\">Tonya Mork</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/vishy-moghan\">Vishy Moghan</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/westonruter\">Weston Ruter</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wongjn\">wongjn</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yogeshbhutkar\">Yogesh Bhutkar</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zaoyao\">zaoyao</a></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to contribute</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>To get involved in WordPress core development, head over to Trac, <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/report/6\">pick a ticket</a>, and join the conversation in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RQBWTW\">#core</a> and <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C080HLPP2Q6\">#6-8-release-leads</a> channels. Need help? Check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/\">Core Contributor Handbook</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\"><em>Props to <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson/\">@joedolson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joemcgill/\">@joemcgill</a> and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>audrasjb</a> for proofreading.</em></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 11 Feb 2025 16:52:23 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Aaron Jorbin\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:79:\"Do The Woo Community: Inside the WooCommerce Release Process with Julia Amosova\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=90545\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"https://dothewoo.io/inside-the-woocommerce-release-process-with-julia-amosova/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:214:\"In this episode, James and Julia discuss WooCommerce\'s enhanced release process, focusing on improved testing, community involvement, and future goals like faster fix releases and compatibility tools for merchants.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 11 Feb 2025 10:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:26:\"Matt: Ed Catmull on Change\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=137101\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://ma.tt/2025/02/ed-catmull-on-change/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1839:\"<p>I&#8217;ve been really enjoying the book <a href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Inc-Overcoming-Unseen-Inspiration/dp/0812993012\">Creativity Inc by Ed Catmull of Pixar</a>, it was recommended to me by my colleague <a href=\"https://davemart.in/\">Dave Martin</a> a while back and I finally got around to it. There&#8217;s an interesting story in it where George Lucas had asked him to develop a film editing system that was digital.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>While George wanted this new video-editing system in place, the film editors at Lucasfilm did not. They were perfectly happy with the system they had already mastered, which involved actually cutting film into snippets with razor blades and then pasting them back together. They couldn&#8217;t have been less interested in making changes that would slow them down in the short term. They took comfort in their familiar ways, and change meant being uncomfortable. [&#8230;] If left up to the editors, no new tool would ever be designed and no improvements would be possible.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>This made me think a lot about the early days of <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/\">Gutenberg</a> and the huge resistance it had in the community, including causing the fork of ClassicPress. Now that we&#8217;re much further along there&#8217;s a pretty widespread acceptance of Gutenberg, and it&#8217;s responsible for the vast majority of all WP posts and pages made, however if we had taken a vote for whether it should happen or not, it probably wouldn&#8217;t have ever gotten off the ground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What’s funny is if you go back even further, using a visual WYSIWYG editor in the first place was very controversial, and many people didn’t want the classic editor brought into WordPress.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 10 Feb 2025 05:38:10 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:110:\"Gutenberg Times: WordPress 6.8 Roadmap, Advanced Debugging Course,  Invoker Commands —   Weekend Edition 319\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=37577\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:112:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-8-roadmap-advanced-debugging-course-invoker-commands-weekend-edition-319/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:21528:\"<p>Hi there, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I&#8217;ll be off next week to Manila, Philippines. After a 15 hrs flight to a  seven-hour time difference, I need a couple of days to acclimate, and I also want to get some sightseeing in before immersing into WordCamp Asia. The next weekend edition will be published after my return to Munich.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I will be sharing <a href=\"https://bsky.app/profile/bph.social\">photos on Bluesky</a> if you would like to follow along my adventures.  I&#8217;m excited about an infinite  amount of 3D interactions with my fellow WordPressers. Sending virtual hugs to you. ?</p>\n\n\n\n<p> Have a wonderful weekend, and if you are coming to Manila, too, have a safe journey! </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yours, ?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>PS: <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/getting-ready-for-wordcamp-asia-2025-in-manila-philippines/\">Getting ready for WordCamp Asia 2025 in Manila, Philippines</a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-8-roadmap-advanced-debugging-course-invoker-commands-weekend-edition-319/#0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-8-roadmap-advanced-debugging-course-invoker-commands-weekend-edition-319/#0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a><ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-8-roadmap-advanced-debugging-course-invoker-commands-weekend-edition-319/#five-newest-block-themes-in-the-wordpress-repository-are\">Six newest block themes </a></li></ol></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-8-roadmap-advanced-debugging-course-invoker-commands-weekend-edition-319/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-8-roadmap-advanced-debugging-course-invoker-commands-weekend-edition-319/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li></ol>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p>In the 407th episode of WP Build, titled <a href=\"https://wpbuilds.com/2025/02/03/407-at-the-core-with-birgit-pauli-haack-and-anne-mccarthy-episode-2/\"><strong>“At The Core” with Birgit Pauli-Haack and Anne McCarthy</strong></a>, we had a fun chat with <strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong> about all the cool updates and features from the last three months. We dove into the neat experimental features aimed at making collaborative editing in WordPress a reality, which feels a lot like using Google Docs! Plus, we covered some handy tools and resources spotlighted on the Developer Blog, from nailing light and dark modes in block themes to figuring out data views and form components. And let’s not forget about &#8220;WordPress Playground,&#8221; an awesome tool that lets you whip up a site right in your browser without any hassle!</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wpbuilds.com/2025/02/03/407-at-the-core-with-birgit-pauli-haack-and-anne-mccarthy-episode-2/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"343\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/WP-Builds-Podcast-Episode-407.jpg?resize=652%2C343&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-37668\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Aaron Jorbin </strong>announced<strong> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/02/04/wordpress-6-7-2-rc1-is-now-available/\">WordPress&nbsp;6.7.2&nbsp;RC1 is now available</a></strong>&nbsp;for testing. Final release is expected next week on February 11, 2025. The post has the list of all the bug fixes from trac tickets and GitHub pull requests. With the minor release, we will also see a new version of the default theme, Twenty-Twenty-Five.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>George Mamadashvili</strong> worked on this week&#8217;s Gutenberg plugin release. Here is the <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/releases/tag/v20.2.0\">changelog of Gutenberg 20.2</a>. At first glance, two enhancements stood out for me:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Details block: Add name attribute for exclusive accordion. (<a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/56971\">56971</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Post-content block header color support. (<a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/67783\">67783</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Krupal Lakhia</strong> published the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/02/06/roadmap-to-6-8/\">Roadmap to WordPress 6.8</a>. WordPress 6.8 is dropping on April 15, 2025, and it&#8217;s all about making site building smoother and faster. Expect an improved editing flow with an enhanced “Zoom Out” mode, better style controls, and more typography options. The update also introduces “Write” and “Design” modes, so you can focus on content or layout separately. Under the hood, new tools like Block Hooks and Block Bindings make it easier to customize, while performance boosts—like speculative loading—help sites run faster. Plus, accessibility upgrades and continued PHP 8.x support keep WordPress user-friendly and future-proof. Lakhia goes into much more detail in his post and shares corresponding PRs from the tracking systems.</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/02/06/roadmap-to-6-8/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"326\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/image-3.png?resize=652%2C326&ssl=1\" alt=\"Change section design from style variations\" class=\"wp-image-37666\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Did you know that you can use Playground to test single Gutenberg PRs? </em></p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"124\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Screenshot-2025-02-07-at-18.50.20.png?resize=652%2C124&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-37682\" />\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p>?️ Latest episode: Jessica Lyschik and I chatted through the latest Gutenberg plugin releases 20.2, 20.3 and 20.4, talked about our WordCamp Asia experience and the upcoming WordPress 6.8 release. Gutenberg Changelog 115 episode will come out over the weekend. </p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"186\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Screenshot-2024-08-31-at-13.08.29.png?resize=652%2C186&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29869\" />\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>After building multiple extensions for Gravity Forms, <a href=\"https://x.com/johnofhousejohn\"><strong>Johnathon Williams</strong>,</a> owner of Odd Jar, has released his first plugin for the Block Editor – <a href=\"https://oddjar.com/wordpress-plugins/quicklink-pro/\"><strong>QuickLink Pro</strong></a>, a link management solution designed specifically for the block editor. It adds external links to the standard link dialog in the block editor for easy linking after you manage your link library on a settings page. This is a great tool to manage your affiliate links, subscription links, or documentation pages you keep referencing in your tutorials. It&#8217;s not free, and hopefully, there are a few more features added later this year. Williams also has some <a href=\"https://oddjar.com/five-tips-for-making-wordpress-plugins-with-ai/\">helpful tips on coding with AI</a>. <em>Hat tip to Davinder Singh Kainth from the WP Weekly for finding the plugin.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://oddjar.com/wordpress-plugins/quicklink-pro/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"346\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Screenshot-2025-02-08-at-12.06.01.png?resize=652%2C346&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-37686\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Eric Karkovack</strong>, The WP Minute, dives into <a href=\"https://thewpminute.com/how-wordpress-block-patterns-improve-your-workflow/\"><strong>How WordPress Block Patterns Improve Your Workflow</strong></a>. WordPress block patterns are pre-designed sections that enhance your workflow by offering a quick way to build websites. Karkovack explains the value of patterns because they save time and offer ready-made reusable designs for common content. Multiple patterns can be combined to create landing pages and shorten their production time.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"five-newest-block-themes-in-the-wordpress-repository-are\">Six newest block themes </h3>\n\n\n\n<p>in the WordPress repository are: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/hr-management/\"><strong>HR Management</strong></a> by Peter Williams &#8211; helps you showcase HR services with eleven patterns and five Style variations</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/gutenify-bold/\"><strong>Gutenify Bold</strong></a> by Code Yatri, a child theme of Gutenify Starter, comes with 10 Style variations and 16 patterns.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/edugrove/\"><strong>EduGrove</strong></a> by Theme Grove &#8211; designed to meet the needs for educational institutions of all kinds. It entails 30 (!) patterns and 7 style variations.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/wens-food-palette/\"><strong>WENS Food Palette</strong></a> by WEN Solutions, a child theme of WENS Haelo, for food related business with 20 patterns.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/healthy-food-blogger/\"><strong>Healthy Food Blogger</strong></a> by Creta Themes &#8211; for passionate food bloggers, recipe creators, and culinary enthusiasts, with 10 patterns and a slider.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/nas-construction-build/\"><strong>NAS Construction Build</strong></a> by Template House a theme for a construction company with 9 style variations and 16 patterns.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The total number of Block themes in the repository is <strong>1,130 as of today</strong>.</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"385\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Screenshot-2025-02-08-at-15.35.55.png?resize=652%2C385&ssl=1\" alt=\" Six newest block themes\" class=\"wp-image-37691\" />\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>In his post <a href=\"https://haurand.com/circles-wp-developing-a-block-theme/\"><strong>Block Theme Circles WP – Developing and Customization</strong></a>, Hans-Gerd Gerhards takes you along his development journey of the block theme <em>Circles WP</em>, which is available in the WordPress repository. Gerhards characterizes his theme as &#8220;lightweight and therefore extremely fast.&#8221; <em>Circles WP</em> is already prepared for an accessibility-ready website. The font used is <a href=\"https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Lexend\">Lexend</a> – an accessible font – as standard. Alternatively, the <a href=\"https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Atkinson+Hyperlegible\">Atkinson Hyperlegible Font</a> – Braille Institute (also accessibility-ready) or “System Font” are available. <em>Circles WP</em> was deliberately developed without any additional CSS, i.e., he only uses the settings of the block editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://haurand.com/circles-wp-developing-a-block-theme/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"285\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/circles_height-1024x448-1.jpg?resize=652%2C285&ssl=1\" alt=\"Screenshot CirclesWP in the block editor\" class=\"wp-image-37670\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>The co-founder of <em>simplenet</em>, a hosting and web development agency from Romania, <em>Andrei Chira</em>, announced that their first theme, a block theme called <strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/simplenet/\">Simplenet</a></strong>, was accepted into the WordPress repository. Chira also shared the genesis of the theme and its features. It&#8217;s meant to be used as a base theme to get started building a website with WordPress. &#8220;The <strong>Simplenet</strong> theme is the result of this learning process. I was inspired by other existing themes and tried to understand how the structure of a block theme works,&#8221; he wrote. The theme is also <a href=\"https://github.com/andreik6v/simplenet\">available on GitHub</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://simplenet.io/introducing-simplenet-wordpress-block-theme/\"><img width=\"650\" height=\"427\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/style-variations-simplenet-650x427-1.webp?resize=650%2C427&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-37679\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2024&#8221;</a>&nbsp;</strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <strong><strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\">2020</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/\">2021</a></strong>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/\">2022</a></strong></strong>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023\">2023</a></strong></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Geoff Graham</strong> created a <a href=\"https://css-tricks.com/baseline-status-in-a-wordpress-block/\"><strong>WordPress block Baseline Status</strong></a> of a web feature base, meaning its browser compatibility. It&#8217;s the baseline status component formatted as a WordPress block. Graham then takes you along the journey of how he built it and what design decisions he made along the way. The <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/baseline-status/\">plugin is available in the WordPress repository</a></p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"582\" height=\"150\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Screenshot-2025-02-08-at-15.14.20.png?resize=582%2C150&ssl=1\" alt=\"Baseline Status block \" class=\"wp-image-37687\" />\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>A new course for WordPress developers is now available: <a href=\"https://learn.wpvip.com/course/advanced-wordpress-debugging/\"><strong>Advanced WordPress Debugging Course</strong></a>. Although published by Learn VIP, the learning site of WordPress VIP, the course is open and free to the public. &#8220;Debugging is a critical skill for any software developer. We understand how important it is to quickly find and resolve issues, reducing downtime and ensuring users have a seamless experience on your site. For your organization, this means saving time, avoiding unnecessary costs, and having the flexibility to grow and adapt without worrying about technical hiccups,&#8221; Rick Hurst wrote on <a href=\"https://lobby.vip.wordpress.com/2025/01/21/new-advanced-wordpress-debugging-course-for-vip-learn/\">the announcement post</a>. And the course is a &#8220;comprehensive exploration of advanced WordPress debugging techniques, equipping learners with the skills and tools needed to troubleshoot and resolve complex issues in WordPress applications.&#8221; The estimated course completion time is 5 to 8 hours. Other courses from the same team are:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wpvip.com/course/enterprise-wordpress-security/\">Enterprise WordPress Security</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wpvip.com/course/enterprise-performance/\">Enterprise WordPress Performance</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wpvip.com/course/wordpress-vip-architecture-and-tooling/\">WordPress VIP Architecture and Tooling</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>In his post, <a href=\"https://www.briancoords.com/getting-the-block-editor-ready-for-ai/\"><strong>Getting the Block Editor Ready for AI</strong></a>, Brian Coords discusses his conversation with Matt Medeiros about the shortcomings of AI and then offers a few strategies on how to help AI become smarter about WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>So there is a new thing called <a href=\"https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Invoker_Commands_API\"><em>Invoker Commands API</em></a> coming to browsers. It&#8217;s so new, it&#8217;s only available in pre-release browsers like Chrome Canary, Firefox Nightly, or Safari TP (Technical Preview) behind a feature flag that you need to enable. So if you are not interested in these new experimental browser features, you can skip this paragraph. <strong>Pascal Birchler</strong>, WordPress core committer sponsored by Google, explored what <a href=\"https://pascalbirchler.com/invoker-commands-api-wordpress/\"><strong>Invoker Commands in WordPress</strong></a> would look like. He explains what the Invoker Commands API tries to accomplish and how, and then he switches to what this would mean for Blocks and how it relates to the Interactivity API. Then Birchler introduces the Block Invokers plugin and how you can provide Invoker commands to a custom block in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now also available via <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json\">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">Email me </a>with your experience</p>\n\n\n\n<p><img alt=\"GitHub all releases\" src=\"https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-small-font-size\"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? </em><br /><em>Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">them via email</a> or</em><br /><em> send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-small-font-size\">For questions to be answered on the <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, <br />send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Featured Image: Photo by <a href=\"https://unsplash.com/de/@mbcaptures?utm_content=creditCopyText&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=unsplash\">Michael Buillerey</a> on <a href=\"https://unsplash.com/de/fotos/stadtbildfotografie-von-gebauden-und-booten-KwgEwVEsao8?utm_content=creditCopyText&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=unsplash\">Unsplash</a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>\n\n\n<form class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"><br />Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input type=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button><p class=\"ngl-form-text\">We hate spam, too, and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone <br />except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</p></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 07 Feb 2025 23:42:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"Matt: On Logan Bartlett Show\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=136823\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:37:\"https://ma.tt/2025/02/logan-bartlett/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:551:\"<p>You may not have heard of <a href=\"https://x.com/loganbartlett\">Logan Bartlett</a>, but he&#8217;s one of the most hilarious people on Twitter and does a really interesting podcast. (<a href=\"https://pca.st/9p91u5lv\">He had a cool episode with Marc Benioff recently</a>.) We sat down for a discussion on managing through crisis, open source and AI, employee liquidity, future of WordPress, and more. You can watch on YouTube below or <a href=\"https://pca.st/j368ze4b\">listen on Pocket Casts</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 07 Feb 2025 20:50:34 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:57:\"Gravatar: How to Set Up a Custom Domain Handle on Bluesky\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2814\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:52:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2025/02/06/bluesky-handle/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13865:\"<p>&#8220;<em>Why does everyone on Bluesky have cooler handles than me?</em>&#8220;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;ve joined <a href=\"https://bsky.app/\">Bluesky</a> recently, you might have noticed something different about the usernames. While you&#8217;re stuck with @yourname.bsky.social, others are rocking handles like @sarah.cool or @team.company. These custom domain handles are one of Bluesky&#8217;s standout features – but until recently, getting one meant diving into the complex world of domain registration and DNS configuration.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With <a href=\"https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/13/tech/x-musk-bluesky-users-post-election/index.html\">Bluesky&#8217;s user base doubling in just 90 days</a>, standing out matters more than ever. But who has time to become a DNS expert just to get a better username?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s some good news: <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a> now offers free domains that connect directly to Bluesky. No complex setup required. These domains come pre-configured, so you can skip the technical hurdles and start using your custom handle right away.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s explore how to <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/26/link-your-gravatar-profile-with-a-free-custom-domain/\">claim your free domain from Gravatar</a>, connect it to Bluesky, and get a verified custom handle in minutes.</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/gravatar-enhanced/\"><img width=\"3243\" height=\"729\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/gravatar_enhanced_cta.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2634\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Why custom domain handles make your Bluesky profile stand out</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>A custom domain handle on Bluesky (@yourname.cool instead of @yourname.bsky.social) signals that you&#8217;ve taken an extra step to establish your presence on the platform. This verification proves you own the domain – something that adds credibility to your profile, no matter your title or type of profile.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Creators and professionals: </strong>Writers like @sarah.ink and artists like @studio.art are using custom handles to build recognizable personal brands.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Small businesses:</strong> Local shops are claiming handles like @cafe.place to stand out in their communities.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Teams and organizations:</strong> Companies use handles like @news.company for announcements and @support.company for customer service.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Early adopters: </strong>Tech-savvy users are grabbing memorable handles like @me.cool before they&#8217;re gone.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The best part? While others are still struggling with complex DNS setups, you can claim your free domain from Gravatar and have your custom handle running in minutes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Until now, getting a custom handle meant:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Finding a domain registrar.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Paying yearly fees (usually $10-30).</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Figuring out DNS records.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Adding TXT entries.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Waiting for verification.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Hoping you didn&#8217;t mess anything up.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar&#8217;s solution? Skip all that. Our domains come pre-configured for Bluesky, and your first year is free. Here&#8217;s everything you need to know:</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>The simplest way to get a custom Bluesky handle: Gravatar domains</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Getting a custom Bluesky handle just got much easier. Gravatar now <a href=\"https://support.gravatar.com/profiles/custom-domains/\">offers free domains</a> that come pre-configured, removing all the technical setup typically needed for custom handles.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These free domains work with Bluesky right out of the box – no DNS configuration required. When you sign up for a Gravatar profile, you can choose from fifteen different domain extensions:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Classic options like .info, .pro, and .link</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Personal branding choices like .guru, .ninja, and .bio</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Social media-focused extensions like .social and .cool</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Professional options like .contact and .place</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The best part? <strong>These domains are free for the first year.</strong> After claiming your domain through Gravatar, you&#8217;ll get full details about renewal pricing during checkout. This makes Gravatar&#8217;s solution perfect for anyone who wants a custom Bluesky handle without dealing with domain registrars or DNS configuration.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Step-by-step: Connect your free Gravatar domain to Bluesky</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Ready to set up your custom Bluesky handle? Follow these simple steps to claim your free Gravatar domain and connect it to Bluesky in minutes:</p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Head to <a href=\"https://gravatar.com\">Gravatar</a> and click the <em>Get Started Now</em> button in the top right corner. Fill in your details and complete your profile setup.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1350\" height=\"998\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/get-started-now-button-gravatar.png\" alt=\"Button to create a new Gravatar profile\" class=\"wp-image-2818\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"2\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>From your Gravatar dashboard, find the <em>Claim Domain</em> option in the top left menu. If you can’t find it, go to <em>Settings &gt; Profile URL </em>tab.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1351\" height=\"957\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/gravatar-claiming-custom-domain.png\" alt=\"Profile URL settings in Gravatar\" class=\"wp-image-2820\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"3\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Choose a domain extension that fits your style from the available options (e.g., .cool, .bio, .social). In this section, you can see how much the renewal would cost for each domain option.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1363\" height=\"1254\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/custom-domain-options.png\" alt=\"Choosing a custom domain through WordPress.com\" class=\"wp-image-2821\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"4\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Want a more personalized touch? Click the <em>Change</em> button next to your profile URL to adjust your domain before finalizing.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>You’ll be redirected to a <a href=\"http://wordpress.com\">WordPress.com</a> checkout page to register the domain, but don’t worry – your first year is free.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"294\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/domain-purchase-checkout-page.png?w=660\" alt=\"WordPress checkout page for a custom domain\" class=\"wp-image-2822\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"6\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Complete the checkout, and you’ll receive an email confirming that your domain is active.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1218\" height=\"925\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/domain-confirmation-email.png\" alt=\"Confirmation email for an activated custom domain by WordPress.com\" class=\"wp-image-2823\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"7\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Open the Bluesky app or website, navigate to <em>Settings &gt; Account &gt; Handle</em>, and select <em>Change Handle</em>.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"871\" height=\"573\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/settings-handle.png\" alt=\"Handle settings in Bluesky app\" class=\"wp-image-2825\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"8\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Click <em>I Have My Own Domain</em>.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"357\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/choosing-personal-domain-for-bluesky.png?w=660\" alt=\"Changing the Bluesky handle with a custom domain\" class=\"wp-image-2826\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"9\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Enter your Gravatar domain (make sure it’s activated), and when you get the <em>Domain verified! </em>message, click on <em>Update to [domain name]</em>.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1219\" height=\"729\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/domain-updated-confirmation.png\" alt=\"Confirmation for the changing of the Bluesky domain\" class=\"wp-image-2828\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"10\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>You’re done! Enjoy your sleek, verified custom handle on Bluesky!</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Common questions on Gravatar’s custom Bluesky handles with Gravatar&nbsp;</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Q: How long does it take to verify my custom domain handle on Bluesky?</strong><strong><br /></strong>A: Verification is quick and usually completes within a few minutes. However, if the system is busy, you might experience a short delay. Don’t worry – your handle will be ready shortly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Q: Will I lose my original .bsky.social handle?</strong><strong><br /></strong>A: No. As of December 12, 2024, your previous .bsky.social handle is reserved for you. You won’t need to create a new account to keep it, and you can switch back to it anytime if you decide to stop using your custom domain.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Q: What happens to tags and mentions associated with my old handle?</strong><strong><br /></strong>A: All tags and mentions linked to your old .bsky.social handle will automatically point to your new Gravatar-powered handle. There’s no risk of losing connections or conversations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Q: Is the handle change permanent?</strong><strong><br /></strong>A: Not at all. You can change your handle again or revert to your original .bsky.social handle anytime. Your Gravatar domain will still belong to you, even if you stop using it on Bluesky.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Q: What else can I do with my Gravatar domain?</strong><strong><br /></strong>A: Your Gravatar domain links directly to your Gravatar profile, which acts as a universal online identity. You can use it to <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/11/11/how-to-list-social-media-handles/\">showcase your other social media profiles</a> and build a cohesive online presence.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Using your existing domain? Here&#8217;s how to verify it&nbsp;</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>If you already own a domain and want to use it as your Bluesky handle, you’ll need to verify it by adding a <strong>DNS TXT record</strong>. Here’s how:</p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>When you initiate the handle change on Bluesky, the platform will provide the specific TXT record you need. This record includes three key fields: <strong>host</strong>, <strong>type</strong>, and <strong>value</strong>.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1091\" height=\"767\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/dnx-records-for-custom-domain.png\" alt=\"DNS record for changing the Bluesky handle with a custom domain\" class=\"wp-image-2827\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"2\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Log in to your domain provider’s DNS management panel (or a third-party service like <a href=\"https://www.cloudflare.com/\">Cloudflare</a>). Locate the section for adding DNS records.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Input the host, type, and value provided by Bluesky into the appropriate fields. Save the changes.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Wait for propagation. While DNS propagation can take up to 24 hours, it usually completes within a few minutes if everything is configured correctly.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Return to Bluesky and click <em>Verify DNS Record</em>. Once verified, your profile will automatically update to use your domain as the handle.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<p>This process adds a layer of credibility to your handle and ensures it’s uniquely tied to your domain ownership.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Managing multiple handles and subdomains</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Organizations often benefit from managing multiple handles under a single domain. For example, a company could use <em>@news.gravatar.com</em> for announcements and <em>@support.gravatar.com</em> for customer service. This creates a cohesive, professional identity across departments or teams.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To set up multiple handles efficiently, it’s recommended to use HTTP verification instead of DNS TXT records. This involves creating a file in the <code>/.well-known/</code><strong> </strong>directory on your web server, which Bluesky checks to verify ownership of the subdomains.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Bluesky provides a detailed guide on <a href=\"https://bsky.social/about/blog/4-28-2023-domain-handle-tutorial\">verifying multiple handles under a single domain</a>. Since the process requires some technical know-how, it’s best suited for developers or IT teams.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Get started with your custom Bluesky handle</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Using a free Gravatar domain for your Bluesky handle offers plenty of advantages:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Choose from a variety of TLD extensions, like .bio, .social, and .link.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Enjoy your domain free for the first year, with no need for complex DNS configuration.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Manage your online identity from a centralized Gravatar profile, making it easy to stay consistent across platforms.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar domains also help <strong>future-proof your digital identity</strong>. As more platforms adopt domain-based verification, having your own domain now ensures you’re ready for the next phase of social media.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To get started, visit <a href=\"https://gravatar.com\">Gravatar</a> and claim your free domain from the available options. While Gravatar simplifies the setup process, remember to complete Bluesky’s handle change steps to activate your custom domain handle.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With just a few clicks, you’ll have a unique, verified handle on Bluesky – and a free domain for the next year!</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gravatar.com/connect/?gravatar_from=blog\"><img width=\"3243\" height=\"729\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/free_profile_cta.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2616\" /></a>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 06 Feb 2025 20:24:34 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:81:\"Do The Woo Community: Developer Takes, From Code to Connections with Tess Kriesel\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=90490\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:79:\"https://dothewoo.io/developer-takes-from-code-to-connections-with-tess-kriesel/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:222:\"In this episode of DevPulse’s \"Expanding the Stack,\" hosts Carl and Zach explore diverse developer backgrounds, emphasize networking and soft skills, and discuss challenges in today\'s job market with guest Tessa Kriesel.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 06 Feb 2025 10:02:24 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:84:\"WPTavern: #155 – Anthony Jackson on Trying to Figure Out His Way in the Tech World\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=187096\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:98:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/155-anthony-jackson-on-trying-to-figure-out-his-way-in-the-tech-world\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53794:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, trying to figure out a way through the tech world.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wp tavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have Anthony Jackson.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anthony is a true technophile whose journey has been shaped by a constant pursuit of understanding new technologies.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>From a young age, Anthony&#8217;s curiosity about technology laid the foundation for a lifetime of exploration. Starting from modest beginnings in computer repair, he steadily transitioned into the world of WordPress, and the complexities of server management.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This episode really is a story, the story of trying new things, being creative, and always following curiosity wherever it may lead.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anthony talks about his early experiences describing the moment computers first sparked his interest, and the subsequent path he charted in the technology space. Despite hurdles and frustrations, particularly with initial web development and WordPress hosting, his story is a testament to determination and resilience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As you&#8217;ll hear, Anthony learned the ropes of many technologies from grappling with CSS for website customization, to exploring cloud computing, and the command line in Linux.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>His journey took a big turn when he discovered automated Bash scripts that facilitate the deployment of open source applications like WordPress. This is what Anthony is doing right now, but you&#8217;re going to hear many stories of different pathways that led to this situation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Throughout the episode, Anthony sheds light on his philosophy of embracing technology. He speaks about the numerous technologies he&#8217;s explored, the trials he faced along the way, and the value of cultivating his technical skills. With his Bash scripts ready to streamline server setups and deployments, Anthony envisions a future where technology is not just a tool, but a powerful ally for businesses and personal projects alike.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re keen to hear some inspirational stories about overcoming tech challenges, resilience and learning, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wp tavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Anthony Jackson.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast today by Anthony Jackson. Hello.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:32] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> Hello, Nathan. How are you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, great. I&#8217;m very, very pleased to chat with you today, not only because you&#8217;ve got some really nice audio equipment, which makes you sound amazing, but also it&#8217;s very nice to meet new faces, new people for the first time ever. That&#8217;s what&#8217;s happening here. I&#8217;ve never met Anthony before.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But in order that both you, dear listener and I, the interviewer, get to know a bit about Anthony, would you mind giving us your little potted bio. I guess it would be best to keep that in the sphere of technology, perhaps WordPress. But just tell us a little bit about yourself, but not too many spoilers about the episode to come.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:03] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> Yeah, so my name is Anthony Jackson. I&#8217;m a technical person by nature. I&#8217;ve always loved technology, always had a thing for it. Went to school for computer technology. I have my own computer repair business. So I do that on the side, part-time, while I work a full-time job, as well as grow the business that you&#8217;re going to learn about here in a little bit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I stay pretty busy, obviously. I love technology, I feel that it can help a lot of people. I don&#8217;t think you should ever be afraid of it. I think you should always embrace it. It&#8217;s one of those things, if you don&#8217;t get on the bandwagon now, you kind of get punished for it later.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I&#8217;m just really excited to share with your audience my journey because it hasn&#8217;t been easy, and I&#8217;m really glad I took the leap of faith because if I didn&#8217;t I certainly wouldn&#8217;t be where I am now. So I&#8217;m just really excited to get started and talk about it and share it with you guys.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, that&#8217;s great. Thank you so much. Can I just ask, I don&#8217;t know your age, but when I was at school, so I&#8217;m now in my very, very early fifties, but when I was at school, a child at school, computers were just starting to be something that was in the market, it wasn&#8217;t the domain of universities occupying an entire room. It was something which you could hold in both arms, but they weren&#8217;t ubiquitous.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, maybe the school had one. It was very rare for an individual to own a computer. And so it wasn&#8217;t really until I was much older and had left school that computers became a bit of a thing which people could tinker with.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What was the experience for you? Again, I&#8217;m not trying to wrangle your age out of you, but just give us an insight into how much computing had progressed by the time you were sort of at school?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:28] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> Oh my gosh, Nathan, I&#8217;ll tell you a little backstory. So my mom left me when I was younger. My dad had passed away. It was kind of just me and I lived with my aunt. She had given me a computer to go live with my mom. She had found my mom is what happened.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I turned it on and it was just an old compact, it booted up so slowly. I had no idea what it was, how it worked, what the purpose of it was. All I knew was I wanted to be on the internet. At that time it was AOL, that was the place to be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I remember turning it on and I pressed the button on the DVD player and the tray opened, and I was like, wait, what is the sorcery? Like, and I&#8217;m like, oh, that&#8217;s cool. Okay, we&#8217;ll go with that. And the neighbor knocked on the door and said, hey, you&#8217;ve got some mail, and she gave me this disk, remember the AOL 3.0 Running Man disk? And I was like, what is this? Like, 30 minutes of the free internet. I&#8217;m like, what is the internet, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I put it in this tray and I ended up setting up my account and the first words I heard were, welcome, you&#8217;ve got mail. And I&#8217;m like, no I don&#8217;t, I just checked it. And I got totally hooked immediately on this whole email thing. And I just, it blossomed, man, and I&#8217;ve been doing computers for, God, 20 years now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I love the backstory on it because it really changed my life. Like, I discovered the internet, email. I spent five years homeless without the internet. I never would&#8217;ve known like who to ask for help, how to get help. It truly changed my life, Nathan. It really did.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think there&#8217;s something quite addictive about it, but also I think, and this is from personal experience, I have no reference to psychology of the human race in general, but it would seem that some people really from a very, very early age are drawn to it on a level which is indescribable. You just have this desire to be in close proximity to a computer that&#8217;s switched on, and to be tinkering with it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I have that, but I know people who are very dear to me that if you put them near a computer, the first thing they want to do is get out the chair and walk away. You know, there&#8217;s just no interest in it whatsoever. But I think it is something that you can be passionate about in a heartbeat.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So in your case, you know, you press the DVD button, something happened, you did it on a keyboard and something happened elsewhere over there. It&#8217;s like, ooh, these two things are connected. There&#8217;s something clever going on there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And all of a sudden alarm bells are ringing. Like, wow, I&#8217;ve got to dig deeper into this. I know already though that you are younger than I am because you joined the computer world at a time when the internet existed. When I was playing with the first computers, basically, you switched it on and a cursor blinked, and that was it. That was the fun that you had, you had to type things in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:45] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> My first experience was Windows 3.1, back when the briefcase was around.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:49] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, so as a child leaving school, you&#8217;ve got this interest in computers and what have you. So where did the journey go from there? What were the next steps from Windows 3.1? What are some of the things that began early on? What were the dominoes that fell?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:00] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> Well, I discovered Windows XP, it was the hottest thing since sliced bread. I loved XP. Vista was a hot mess. Fast forward, seven was good, eight was terrible. And then Windows 10, and now Windows 11. I figured if I learned Windows 3.1, I kind of had to follow the journey. So I started Googling the different features of Windows, realised quickly that an operating system is an operating system, it&#8217;s just where you find stuff, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I love the fact that I could see it progress, that I could be a part of that and help people. And that&#8217;s what really turned me onto it. So the technology thing is what really kind of gets me. I love technology. I love the fact that we can use it to have a good time, to leverage it, to grow our businesses, to do a lot of things, like podcasting and other things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Are you the kind of person that upon receiving a computer, desktop computer, do you like to take it apart and see what the bits are inside there, or assemble your own? Or are you purchase it from the store and let the dust gather on the inside and then dispose of it at some point, 5, 10 years later whatever it may be?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:55] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> The thing that I love the most, Nathan, this is going to sound so crazy, I don&#8217;t enjoy building them. I actually don&#8217;t know how to build them. I tried once and failed miserably. But what I love nothing more in my computer repair business is when somebody comes to me and says, Tony, I need to buy a new one, I don&#8217;t know what to do, where do I start?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I love that conversation because it&#8217;s so overwhelming for a lot of people, and I have a unique way. I took a Tony Robbins class a long time ago for personal development, and they did this whole assessment on me and the results yielded that I had a way of breaking down technical information into a manner that someone can understand.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So when someone comes to me and says, I need a new computer, I&#8217;m like, okay, I got you, it&#8217;s okay. What do you need? What are you looking for? What are your concerns? And I can have a nice conversation and ease them into making a confident purchase instead of buyer&#8217;s remorse. It makes such a difference.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:43] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;m firmly on the Mac side of things, and when you purchase a Mac, you really only have three or four decisions to make, one of which is color. What color do you want the computer to be? But beyond that, it&#8217;s things like how much memory, how much ram, there&#8217;s very few components that you really get to choose about that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But on the Windows side of things, for a family member, I have recently built a computer and I was actually fairly alarmed at how many choices there were for every single thing. And it really did make me realise that there&#8217;s a whole career in just being able to understand what range of graphics cards there are, what range of CPUs there are, what kind of panel could you have as a display, what the keyboards are, what the mouse are.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that was really interesting to me. Is that something that you nerd out on then? Do you know all of the kind of serial numbers of the different graphics cards which are available?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:32] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> I&#8217;m not that big of a nerd. My nerd comes out when I started Learn WordPress, that&#8217;s when the nerd came out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. Well, we&#8217;ve established your nerd credentials. That&#8217;s lovely. Let&#8217;s move on to WordPress then. When did you, firstly, when was the first time you came across WordPress, and in what context? What did you need it for?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:48] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> So a long time ago I started my computer repair business, probably about eight or nine years ago. And the first thing that came to mind was a website. I was like, I have to have a website. I have a business, it&#8217;s a known fact you have to have a website, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, I didn&#8217;t know WordPress had never heard of WordPress, so I went where any other person would go, and that was to the internet to find web hosting, and I found godaddy.com. And I was like, GoDaddy it is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I had a budget of around $3,000, and what happened was they ended up coding me a really nice HTML, CSS, web development website. But I realised quickly that I&#8217;m a picky person. I wanted things changed. I didn&#8217;t like how things aligned. OCD, like the CSS and stuff wasn&#8217;t aligning. And I wanted more control. I wanted to be able to control that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I remember Googling how to control your website and it said WordPress, the number one platform. I&#8217;m like, what the hell is WordPress? Okay. And I clicked, best decision of my life. I ended up going back to GoDaddy to get hosting, WordPress hosting. I didn&#8217;t know what it was, I had to kind of figure it out. And I realised quickly about shared hosting, and what it was, and how it acted, and I didn&#8217;t like the fact that I was being shared with people, it made me very angry.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I went through seven different hosting providers, 15 different WordPress for Dummies books, trying to figure things out. Was very, very hard. One day I ended up going to like, I think it was Namecheap or something, and getting a little bit better WordPress hosting with more resources because I thought that would help. And I was sitting there so frustrated because I saw a template but had no idea what to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And all of a sudden after tinkering with WordPress in the back end, I put the word home in what we call the primary menu. And at that point it clicked. I was like, oh my God, I can build a fully fledged website with content that&#8217;s branded to me without having to pay extra to add revisions and stuff like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so for like two weeks straight, I learned how to install WordPress. I learned the art of the primary menu. I had so much fun just adding the same buttons every time, home, about, services, contact. And then I discovered page builders. That&#8217;s when things really turned. Divi was my first love, and always will be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Did you have to really persevere then, because it sounds like you&#8217;ve got all of the equipment in your head for dealing with technical problems. You&#8217;ve got that sort of passion to see it through to the end. I think I get quite frustrated with certain tasks and give up fairly quickly, but it sounds like you&#8217;ve got all of the bits and pieces.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>10 years ago when you installed WordPress, I&#8217;m guessing it was a much more difficult enterprise than it is now. You know, you&#8217;ve got these hosting companies that you basically click one button and not only will they set your WordPress website up, they&#8217;ll send you the login links, you can probably just click a button to log in on the backend and what have you. Was it fairly frustrating, and do you think that, if you&#8217;d had a different personality type, you would&#8217;ve just thrown the baby out the bathwater and gone, nope?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:29] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> A hundred percent. If I did not have my technical background, I would&#8217;ve gave up years ago. I called GoDaddy so many times for support. I can&#8217;t even begin to tell you how many times I called them. And I enjoyed calling them because when I did call them, I got to give them some great feedback because they understood completely what I was trying to do. So it was really cool. I got to see them improve and I got to see myself improve. But it was also nice to be able to call them and get it fixed because I didn&#8217;t have to explain what I was trying to do. I knew what I was trying to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the design element stuff did not come until later. I spent so much time tinkering with WordPress, buying plugins. Nathan, I&#8217;ve got a repository on themeforest.net of plugins and themes that I haven&#8217;t even touched. I bought anything from caching plugins, to improve performance, to membership plugins, not knowing any idea what they&#8217;ve been. I just went on as spending spree and just bought everything. And now I&#8217;m like, what do I do with it all? Like, I don&#8217;t even know what I want to build.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> There&#8217;s a definite learning curve there. Just dealing with the nature of the internet. I don&#8217;t know quite how to put this. When I talk to people about how interesting I think the internet is, I can very often sense that people&#8217;s eyes are glazing over. You know, oh Nathan, dear Nathan, what&#8217;s the matter with you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I think on a very profound level that it is amazing that we live in a time where you can download free software, and with a few dollars invested in hosting, and it doesn&#8217;t have to be a lot, you can have something that the entire world, well, by that I mean people who have access to the internet, the entire world can see.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And conceptually, I just think that&#8217;s utterly remarkable. And I don&#8217;t know if it ever sort of hits you in the same way that it hits me. But you said, you know, you put the word home on your webpage, or you put something for your home screen and you have that moment of, I can do the internet. I can be on the internet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think that is something which gets lost so quick. But occasionally I stare at what I&#8217;m doing and think, I just click publish and there it is, and everybody can see it. And I think that&#8217;s phenomenal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:35] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> That hit me when I discovered the actual blog portion of WordPress. When I discovered that my content could go out to anybody and everybody with a click of a button. I was a little blown away. I was a little overwhelmed because I was like, this is really cool. I&#8217;ve created a piece of content for somebody that might need my help. They can just click a button and within a few seconds potentially see it. Like that is, you&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s remarkable. But it&#8217;s also really overwhelming for somebody who&#8217;s never experienced it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, and I guess, you&#8217;ve got to be a little bit careful about what you publish and what have you. But I still think we are in an age where I think it&#8217;s easy to forget how privileged we are that we have access. Well, you and I, for example, we&#8217;ve never met. We&#8217;ve only communicated on the internet via a social network. I messaged to say would anybody enjoy coming on this podcast? You contacted me. Here we are. We&#8217;re using a browser based application to communicate with each other. And this is just totally normal now. And yet my 14-year-old self staring at the computer in the school, what we&#8217;re doing now was the realm of Star Trek.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This was the kind of thing that people in spaceships did, and yet now it&#8217;s totally normal. And sometimes I try to sort of impress upon my children how remarkable it is, but for them it&#8217;s just, no, no, no, this is what all humans have had for all time. And it just gets lost.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:49] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> It is remarkable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Where from there then? So we&#8217;ve reached the point where you&#8217;ve discovered WordPress. What&#8217;s happened subsequently since then? It sounds like you&#8217;ve got your business all pivoted around WordPress as well. What&#8217;s the next step in the story?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:01] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> Well, I went through multiple page builders, never really learned another one because I got so comfortable with Divi. I tried Elementor, didn&#8217;t really like it all that much. Tried every block builder. Discovered Gutenberg was the worst thing known to mankind. Tried buying Astra, some other, I forget the other company that has the block builder.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Kadence maybe.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:21] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> Kadence, yes, I tried them. But the thing that I didn&#8217;t like about WordPress, I loved the page builders, they made things easy, but the one thing that I hated the most is I never really had control of where to put stuff. It always was just like, this is your block, this is where it goes. I didn&#8217;t know CSS. I didn&#8217;t know HTML. I did not know how to move things, and I hated that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because the whole point of me going to WordPress was to have control. And when I lost control, it turned me off. I was the person who built the entire website and canceled my hosting because I wanted more control. That&#8217;s how I learned. I canceled, and bought, and canceled, and bought and thought it would get better and it didn&#8217;t, and I just pushed, and pushed, and pushed and learned.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I started to just Google how to move things with CSS. I taught myself the basics of CSS and HTML, and a little bit of JavaScript. Not a lot, just enough to be dangerous. But I wanted control, Nathan. I wanted to be able to do things, and when I discovered that I could do that, that put me in another whole new rabbit hole. Then I discovered plugins that control CSS, selectors and all of that, so it gave me an opportunity.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I always think that WordPress kind of has been pitched at me by other human beings as this kind of catchall, easy to use solution. I think maybe you&#8217;ll get lucky and you&#8217;ll be satisfied in a way that you clearly are not, you know, if you want every pixel to be mapped perfectly from your head onto the screen, that&#8217;s not going to be the case. But maybe for many people it&#8217;s enough.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, I&#8217;ve got this templated layout, it&#8217;s fine, I&#8217;m happy with that. I&#8217;ll click publish and whatever&#8217;s there is fine. But if you do want to move things around, and you do want to have a particular layout, and you want to show only these posts here and these posts here, but you want it to look entirely different from the theme that you&#8217;re using, I think it&#8217;s still very confusing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think the underlying languages of HTML, CSS and JavaScript, which really these days are the underpinnings of certainly the front end of web development, they&#8217;re fairly difficult to acquire if it&#8217;s not your job. If you&#8217;re just doing this evening, weekend, it&#8217;s a bit of a hobby, I still think those things are really difficult to acquire and they&#8217;re not slowing down. You know, in the year 2025 when we&#8217;re recording this, CSS is really on a clip, it&#8217;s really modifying itself quickly. All these different sort of layout systems, flex, grid to learn and what have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I think the promise of the page builders in WordPress is probably why it&#8217;s as successful as it is. If you rewind the clock 10 years, when they just started to come about, you mentioned Divi and there was Beaver Builder and, oh, all sorts of other ones. I would imagine that if you could chart the growth of WordPress, it would&#8217;ve been the novice user wanting a sort of what you see as what you get, point, click, drag, save solution that meant that WordPress grew. And it sounds like you fitted into that niche quite nicely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:56] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> Yeah, I wanted to know why. Why it wasn&#8217;t working. Why the block couldn&#8217;t move. I was very irritated by that because I had certain expectations for my logo to be correct. And what really got me into WordPress was the fact that it was drag and drop. And I love the word drag and drop, because if you don&#8217;t know how to code, well, drag and drop is the alternative, and it&#8217;s your best friend. But it&#8217;s not a true, genuine, drag and drop experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because to me, drag and drop genuine experience means to put things where I want to put them. I don&#8217;t want to be limited by the block builder, you know, the blocks that you&#8217;re provided. I want to be able to move it, control it, customise it. Because at the end of the day, people buy into you and not your products and services. But at the same time, your website never gets built because you spend way too much time customising, Googling the 20 best page builders of 2025, and buying a whole bunch of stuff you never needed in the first place, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So have you doubled down on your page builder of choice and your website building experience is based upon the UI, and becoming an expert and having the perfect muscle memory for doing things in that? Is that how you build your pages, and themes, and structures for web pages now?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:00] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> So, ironically enough, Nathan, I&#8217;ve actually got away from doing WordPress. I transitioned into something different, which we&#8217;re going to get to here in a minute. I learned everything about WordPress. I wanted to learn. The only thing I didn&#8217;t learn was WooCommerce. I understand what it is, I just didn&#8217;t want to learn it. I didn&#8217;t have a need for, my business didn&#8217;t sell digital products.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I got out of it because it just became frustrating because I just couldn&#8217;t do what I wanted to do, and I didn&#8217;t have the budget to pay someone to fix it. I knew if I did, I would probably just cancel anyways because I wanted it to look even better. So I just stopped because I didn&#8217;t want to do it. I discovered that I wanted to learn how to actually deploy WordPress for myself instead of using a hosting provider because that&#8217;s the easy way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So one day I was Googling and I came across the word Linux. I was like, Linux, okay, that sounds like a fun rabbit hole. Let&#8217;s check it out. I discovered my first cloud computing company, which was Linode. I called them up and, you know, I got to be honest with you, I wasn&#8217;t super impressed with them, because the one thing that I realised quickly is that there&#8217;s no support at all. It is all community driven. If you think about WordPress, the open source, there&#8217;s no support. It&#8217;s all just learning community based forums, podcast episodes, wherever you can get content. Thank God WordPress, the audience is so big that you can get help. But to this day, there&#8217;s still things that I still want to know the answers to about WordPress, but I just can&#8217;t find anymore.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I discovered Linux and I had a very, very difficult time of spinning up a server. I struggled so badly with the command line, so badly. And then I discovered that Linode had one click apps and one of them was WordPress. I was like, here we go again. I installed WordPress. I grew a little bit of a fascination with trying to find my credentials inside the terminal, realised quickly that shared hosting was not the only option to deploy WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>My biggest problem with the server stuff was there was no support. I struggled very badly. Everything I Googled said, copy this, copy that. I&#8217;d copy and paste, I wouldn&#8217;t get the result. I was throwing things around, spinning up servers left and right, getting so frustrated. I&#8217;m like, what do I need to do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I ended up buying a course on Udemy, and went through this very, very great course for absolute beginners and discovered quickly what I was doing wrong. Completely stopped the course and started learning again, because I&#8217;m not that type of person who takes the course. I find my fix, and then I go back to like tinkering with things. I spun up, I don&#8217;t know, probably 300 little VPSs trying to figure things out. Needless to say, I&#8217;m a master of installing WordPress with Linode now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Have you got into Linux server admin, sort of sys admin as a way, well, that was just the fun that you were having at the time, and then discovered that, okay, WordPress can bolt on top of that. And so now the two things have combined and you are back to WordPress, or have you entirely stopped with WordPress?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:40] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> I never got into the sys admin stuff, but the next journey for me was, I Googled Linux and I had WordPress. I hated the command line, Nathan. The commands, the black and white was so overwhelming. As it turns out now it&#8217;s like my best friend. I can&#8217;t live without it because it&#8217;s so much easier if you know what you&#8217;re doing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I discovered something called cPanel, and when I got into cPanel I was like, okay, this is cool. I got a GUI, I can look at something, and lo and behold, guess what I found first? Install WordPress. I&#8217;m like, it&#8217;s back again, right? Everywhere I turn, WordPress kept coming back.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I learned how to install cPanel on my own server, trials galore, WordPress. Ended up getting super frustrated with cPanel, because cPanel is extremely technical, if you are not in a shared hosting environment where it&#8217;s managed. It&#8217;s extremely technical. They started giving me questions, I started asking for commands. I started taking notes of those commands, so when I broke something, I would know what to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I learned cPanel pretty proficiently, but got overwhelmed with it just because the technical. There&#8217;s a difference between documentation and technical documentation. Documentation is, click here, do this. Technical documentation is, before you get started, make sure that cPanel&#8217;s installed properly on your server. It&#8217;s like, okay, first of all, what is cPanel and how do you install it properly? Is there such a thing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like it feels so overwhelming and you couldn&#8217;t contact Linode, you had no support. The only thing you had was cPanel. So I went through hundreds of cPanel trials trying to figure things out. Grew a fascination with the command line and installing cPanel. And I discovered pretty quickly that, even though I didn&#8217;t want to learn WordPress anymore, I wanted to provide hosting for WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I wanted my own hosting provider. I wanted to be the guy who said, you know what you need, WordPress hosting, I got you. But as it turns out, hosting WordPress on your own server is difficult because you don&#8217;t have that system admin background to fix things. Makes it extremely challenging and it, your confidence goes way, way, way down, because you cannot provide that quality of hosting that you want to provide.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So upon Googling more, I discovered something called WHMCS, Web Host Master Complete Solution. Loved this concept. This was a dark rabbit hole. I went down this rabbit hole, and discovered quickly that I would have to install it on my own server, which I lacked knowledge of. Biggest problem was the file manager, figuring out the file structure, how to navigate to the path, trying to figure all that out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I finally got that installed and I learned about WHMCS. And through some Googling and YouTube, I hooked up my first server and I click install and it provisioned an instance of WordPress inside of WHMCS. I saw a button that said, log into WordPress. And I was like, oh my God. There&#8217;s a button.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I clicked this button and I was like, oh my God, it just launched WordPress. I was blown away, so I was like, let&#8217;s get a business going. So I started writing documentation and yeah, it wasn&#8217;t that easy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:26] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Boy, I mean, you get the prize for commitment though. I mean, I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve got just bucket loads of time on your hand, or if you are just the kind of person that, once you&#8217;ve set yourself a task, it&#8217;s going to annoy you until you finally cross that Rubicon. But you&#8217;ve got a lot stickability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:42] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> I&#8217;m a determined individual. I went through multiple attempts at WordPress hosting, but I discovered that I was going to need help. I was going to have to find a way to provide this because I didn&#8217;t have the system admin background. So I discovered reseller hosting. And this is kind of where things blossomed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Reseller hosting was great, because they not only provided the WHMCS license free, they provided a cPanel license and I didn&#8217;t have to manage it. It was the perfect setup. I was like, oh my God, this is perfect. So I really started to dig into my business then. But then I discovered really quickly that without customers, this is going to be really difficult.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:14] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s the crucial bit that you have to have somebody to resell it to.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:17] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> So after three, four months of messing with tech and mastering the art of cPanel, WHM and WHMCS, I stopped because I didn&#8217;t have any customers. Why pay 40 bucks a month if you&#8217;re not making any money, right? Didn&#8217;t make sense. So I was like, well, I need to figure out a different way to provide hosting. I came across something in Linode called Bash. Bash scripting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I did a little Googling, looked at some images, and I&#8217;m like, okay, it&#8217;s coded. I&#8217;m not a coder. How am I going to do this? And I went back and looked at cPanel, because I had installed it one day and I noticed that the word Bash was in their installation command. And I was like, what the hell is Bash? And what is it doing in this command?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So Google, Google, Google. I discovered some commands, curl, Wget in Linux, all the stuff, and realised that I could pull a file down from the internet and run it as Bash. I was like, this is wicked cool. And I wanted to be able to deploy WordPress, but I wanted to be able to provide it to somebody else so that I didn&#8217;t have to deal with the server side. I wanted to be able to give them a script and say, you can download this script, click a button, add your domain, make sure your DNS is set up and you&#8217;re golden. And I was like, this is cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But then I realised like, I need a way to deploy WordPress because I can&#8217;t use Linode because then I&#8217;m doing it. I don&#8217;t want to help them get to where they need to be because I don&#8217;t know how. So how do I offer WordPress hosting in a manner that they can do it in a session that they can understand? So what I ended up doing was I discovered Docker.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:35] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You have been everywhere.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:36] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> I discovered Docker, and I was like, okay, this is overwhelming, right? Docker Hub, command line. I installed my first WordPress image and I saw the welcome screen. So what we know as WordPress, when we log in, we just log in with our credentials and we&#8217;re good. This brought me to the actual installation screen of WordPress. Pick your language. And I was like, oh, this is where it really begins, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So when I discovered Docker, I found the first image and I launched my first instance of WordPress using Docker, and it was local. And I went to go do everything and it said, error, database not found. I was like, this isn&#8217;t good, because I knew that the database was the core, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I learned in Docker how to set up a database with my SQL. And after some serious frustration around coding YAML files, I got with a guy on Fiverr and I said, listen, I said, I need you to make me a script.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I need a Docker install that can install WordPress, have a database, and also be able to get an SSL on the domain, because adding SSLs in Linux is a pain in the butt. I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve ever been down this road. One of the biggest things about cPanel and the shared hosting is the automatic SSL feature is flipping amazing. It&#8217;s one of the things you&#8217;ll fall in love with, because your site has to be secure for multiple reasons.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But regardless, he ended up using something called Caddy server. Reverse proxies, all that stuff. He ended up just creating the script. And he goes, just run it. I&#8217;m like, how do I run it? I have no idea. He&#8217;s like, just make a file, do this. And I put the code in and all of a sudden I hit enter and this thing started running. It started updating packages, and servers, installing Docker, Docker Engine, Docker Compose, running and running and running and running. And I&#8217;m just watching it running. My eyes are just lighting up the whole time. I&#8217;m like, oh my God, what is doing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:14] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s like watching the Matrix or something, isn&#8217;t it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:17] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> It would pause, it would extract, it would unzip files. I thought it was broke. I restarted like seven times. And all of a sudden it stopped, Nathan, and said, your WordPress instance is ready, go here. And I was like, no way. No way. And I&#8217;ll be damned, man. I clicked the link and there it was on my own domain secure, and I was blown away.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I didn&#8217;t even log in because I knew it right then and there that I could deploy WordPress and everything would be fine, right? And so I saw this WordPress and I was like, oh my God, I just deployed WordPress in minutes, not hours, on my own server with nearly no technical knowledge.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I don&#8217;t know, I think you&#8217;ve acquired quite a lot of technical knowledge on the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:55] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> Well, thank God, right? Because running that script was extremely challenging, but I was just, you know that moment when you discover something and you&#8217;re clapping and you&#8217;re smiling and you&#8217;re putting your hands over the air? I was clapping away. That&#8217;s where my mind was at. And when I did that, that&#8217;s when the business really started, because I wanted to be able to offer WordPress hosting without having to worry about the sys admin stuff. So I figured if I just provided a script.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So now I have a script that&#8217;s made in Bash that you just copy and paste a command and the script runs and does what it needs to do. All you need to do is just add your A record for the DNS and your SSL and you&#8217;re good to go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So is that, dare I ask, is that where you&#8217;re at now? Or is there another sort of, I don&#8217;t know, you just sort of, quick, pivot left? Is there something else coming?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:36] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> No, there&#8217;s more. So Bash is kind of where I stopped. I didn&#8217;t really learn Bash, but as you know there&#8217;s a lot of drama in the WordPress community, and it seems to shine on X. And I made a decision that it&#8217;s going to be really hard to market because of all the competition with WordPress. And I kind of stopped.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so the business now, this is where I&#8217;m at, I&#8217;m creating Bash scripts for popular open source applications. Because if there&#8217;s one thing that I&#8217;ve learned through my journey with WordPress and learning servers and Linux, it&#8217;s that the open source community is so powerful. Your privacy, your focus, your respect, your content, your everything is so important. So I&#8217;m actually creating Bash scripts that automate the process of those popular open source applications like WordPress, Plausible Analytics, Nextcloud, all those popular ones.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m in the process of making scripts for all those, and it makes the process easy because when I first started deploying open source applications, my biggest challenge was the documentation. Trying to understand it, trying to read it, trying to make sense of it. And when I saw that WordPress script run, man, I was like, oh my God, I can make anything run, and now I&#8217;ve got five scripts.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:46] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And so is that going to be the business in the future there? Where you come along and you, I don&#8217;t know, you want Moodle or something, or you want Joomla or WordPress or whatever it may be, and you&#8217;ve got a script which you basically just put it on your server, run it, find the path to it, run it, and you&#8217;re off to the races.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s an interesting business model and not one, well, I mean, obviously, that business model is encapsulated in many, many, many hosting companies and hosting solutions like cPanel and what have you, but yours is going to be just, buy the script, off me, run the script, and then you&#8217;re on your own.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:16] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> Because the biggest issue that I&#8217;m finding with people, it&#8217;s not so much the command line, it&#8217;s tying the SSL into it. And a lot of people are hosting these open source applications locally, but there&#8217;s a problem with that. There&#8217;s a big problem. We talked about at the very beginning of this podcast episode, it&#8217;s not on the internet. It&#8217;s local to your computer, nobody can see it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What Caddy does is creates that reverse proxy and puts it on your own domain so that the world can see it. It solves a big problem. Because Linux is so big, you not only have to learn the operating system. You not only have to learn the command line. You&#8217;ve got to learn the commands itself. You&#8217;ve got to have serious patience. You&#8217;ve got to be able to do a lot of things to get to where you need to be with Linux to be comfortable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These scripts make it super easy. Literally, like you point your A record, you let it propagate, you press a button and it goes. And I went as so far to this, this is really cool, I had someone else create a script that secures your server as well. So when you run this WordPress script it disables root login, it does all the security best practices, uses public key authentication, the whole nine yards. Then it installs Docker, Docker Compose, Docker Engine, runs the file, runs Caddy, installs WordPress, and you have a secure server set up in 10 minutes with your own WordPress instance on the internet ready to go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I remember the famous five minute install for WordPress, but this is more like five minute install for all the stack. Click the button, go off, make yourself a coffee, and by the time you&#8217;ve come back everything is done. That&#8217;s so interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:40] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> There&#8217;s a couple of manual processes because of the way the script is built. But if you have a technical background, you&#8217;re good to go. And one of the reasons I did this, Nathan, was because I realised there was no support as we discussed, right? Well, I didn&#8217;t know everything about Linux. There&#8217;s no way I could be a system admin, no way in hell.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I wanted to make a way to where I could give it to someone and say, hey, here it is. Heads up, we&#8217;re not responsible. This is your server. You break it, you fix it. I&#8217;m here to give you the script, I&#8217;m here to troubleshoot why it&#8217;s not working and that&#8217;s it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:10] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, you&#8217;re just the beginning. You are the first step on the journey, and then it&#8217;s hands off from your perspective, and then it&#8217;s over to you. I&#8217;ve got it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:17] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> The scripts are all one-time fees. So you own it, do whatever you want with it. Remodify it, I don&#8217;t care. Make it better, improve it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Where do you sell them then? How has that as a business idea gone down? Have you managed to find customers for that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:28] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> I have not found customers yet. That&#8217;s part of the reason I&#8217;m on here, to help get exposure. I&#8217;m still trying to kind of validate the business idea. Anybody that knows anything about Bash scripts knows that they&#8217;re not sold. They&#8217;re free. I&#8217;ve put a lot of money into having these things created for me, so I want to get a little bit of return on them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And they&#8217;re not, I mean, the WordPress one is 27. It&#8217;s nothing crazy. You can deploy WordPress as many times as you want, SSLs, et cetera. It&#8217;s a slow process. I&#8217;m very much, my business in a phase where I&#8217;m building my audience. I&#8217;m trying to find out who that audience is, what their pain points are, what their problems are. And things will probably progress from there. So right now my biggest challenge is just trying not to learn anything else because I&#8217;ve learnt so much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:11] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it would seem that your history is littered with, well, not dead ends, but kind of temporary dead ends where it leads you to the next thing, and it leads you to the next thing. But actually the thread running through your story that I&#8217;m picking up is that each time you drop a piece of technology and move on to another one, it&#8217;s kind of elevating you towards something a bit more difficult.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The technologies that we&#8217;re using at the beginning, the next one was a little bit more difficult to manage, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one. And it was that inexorable kind of rise to now where you are doing the full nine yards in this one script. That&#8217;s really interesting. What a fascinating story.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I tell you what, you have more patience than I have. And I don&#8217;t know how many times you&#8217;ve thrown things at walls, but I suspect if it was me, it would&#8217;ve been quite a few. When those moments of clarity that I don&#8217;t really know what&#8217;s going on here, but I&#8217;m going to persevere. Remarkable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We kind of hit the sweet spot in terms of time. So we&#8217;ll sort of wrap it up. What a fascinating journey. I love that story. Tell me, Anthony, where would people find what it is that you are mentioning here, these Bash scripts? Where would we find those? And then another question, very much the same really is, where would we find you? Where do you hang out online, and where could people discover you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:19] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> So my primary home is x.com. I really like X. You can visit my bio, there is a link to the website. Please note the website is being updated from what it is to something else. I was going to do the whole WordPress thing, but things changed a little bit. So I&#8217;ll leave you a link, Nathan, with a link to the shop and you can take a look at the scripts and decide if you want to purchase one. If you do, just know that I truly appreciate your support. Running a small business is extremely challenging on a very tight budget.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I really feel that this is something that can help a lot of people get where they need to be because there&#8217;s a lot of digital scams in the world. And the one script that I love that I have is the Nextcloud script. And I love the fact that I can store my data securely and not have to worry about privacy and my data being sold. So if you&#8217;re looking for an alternative to keep your stuff safe, definitely a robust option.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I&#8217;ll send you a link, Nathan, to the scripts. I&#8217;m still in the middle of updating links and things like that. I&#8217;m just excited to finally have it off the ground and finally have a business after learning nine different technologies in a matter of two years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It sounds like a lot. So what I&#8217;ll say is, when Anthony sends me the link, I will embed it into the show notes. So if you head to wptavern.com/podcast, if you search for Anthony Jackson, then you&#8217;ll be able to find that episode and I will make sure that all of the links that he sends me finally end up on the show notes over there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What a fantastic and interesting story. Anthony Jackson, I really hope that your endeavor, all of that hard work pays off. Good luck for the future. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:46] <strong>Anthony Jackson:</strong> It was great to meet you, Nathan. Thank you everyone for listening. I hope you enjoyed this story. I hope that it inspires somebody. Technology is an amazing thing. Remember, never fear it, always, always embrace it. It can take you places you&#8217;ve never imagined.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://x.com/wphasslefree\">Anthony Jackson</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anthony is a true technophile whose journey has been shaped by a constant pursuit of understanding new technologies. From a young age, Anthony&#8217;s curiosity about technology laid the foundation for a lifetime of exploration. Starting from modest beginnings in computer repair, he steadily transitioned into the world of WordPress, and the complexities of server management.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This episode really is a story, the story of trying new things, being creative and always following curiosity, wherever it may lead.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anthony talks about his early experiences, describing the moment computers first sparked his interest, and the subsequent path he charted in the technology space. Despite hurdles and frustrations, particularly with initial web development and WordPress hosting, his story is a testament to determination and resilience. As you’ll hear Anthony learned the ropes of many technologies, from grappling with CSS for website customisation, to exploring cloud computing and the command line in Linux.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>His journey took a big turn when he discovered automated Bash scripts that facilitate the deployment of open-source applications like WordPress. This is what Anthony is doing right now, but you’re going to hear many stories of different pathways that led to this situation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Throughout the episode, Anthony sheds light on his philosophy of embracing technology. He speaks about the numerous technologies he&#8217;s explored, the trials he faced along the way, and the value of cultivating his technical skills. With his Bash scripts ready to streamline server setups and deployments, Anthony envisions a future where technology is not just a tool, but a powerful ally for businesses and personal projects alike.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re keen to hear some inspirational stories about overcoming tech challenges, resilience and learning, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wphasslefree.com/\">Anthony&#8217;s website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.elegantthemes.com/gallery/divi/\">Divi</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.wpbeaverbuilder.com/\">Beaver Builder</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://elementor.com/\">Elementor</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.cpanel.net/\">cPanel</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.linode.com/\">Linode</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.whmcs.com/\">WHMCS</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.docker.com/\">Docker</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://hub.docker.com/\">Docker Hub</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://yaml.org/\">YAML</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://caddyserver.com/\">Caddy Server</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://plausible.io/\">Plausible Analytics</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://nextcloud.com/\">Nextcloud</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 05 Feb 2025 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:48;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:76:\"Gutenberg Times: Getting ready for WordCamp Asia 2025 in Manila, Philippines\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=37593\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:86:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/getting-ready-for-wordcamp-asia-2025-in-manila-philippines/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:15919:\"<p>Promoted as the <em>premier open-source summit of Asia</em>, <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/\">WordCamp Asia 2025</a> will take place from February 20 to 22nd, 2025 in the great capital of the Philippines, Manila. The organizing team has published a ton of information over the last four months. If you, like me, are more a just-in-time preparer it might be overwhelming to get through all the posts and see the forest for the trees.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>First things first: If you haven&#8217;t purchased your ticket, it&#8217;s high time. You need to <a href=\"https://login.wordpress.org/register?locale=en_US&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Flogin.wordpress.org%2F%3Ffrom%3Dasia.wordcamp.org%26redirect_to%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fasia.wordcamp.org%252F2025%252Flp%252F%26locale%3Den_US\">register for a WordPress.org account</a> and login, before you can buy a ticket.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button has-custom-width wp-block-button__width-50\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/tickets/\">Get your ticket now! </a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>The <em>WordCamp Asia 2025</em> is not one event but three: <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/contributor-day/\">Contributor Day</a>, a<a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/schedule/\"> conference with talks, and workshops</a>, and <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/youthcamp/\">YouthCamp</a>, with a schedule for kids 8 &#8211; 17 years old. It will happen at the Philippines International Convention Center (PICC). That&#8217;s also where the <strong>After Party </strong>will take place on Saturday night that concludes this marvelous event. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I like to get at least a few days of sightseeing in before I enter the convention center for all the fantastic WordCamp activities. The two posts from the local organizing team about <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/ultimate-guide-philippine-culture-travel-etiquette-phrases/\"><strong>Philippine Culture</strong></a> and <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/guide-to-filipino-food/\"><strong>Filipino Food</strong></a> gave me a great insight into what I can expect and how I can blend in. Or at least don&#8217;t make a fool out of myself and others. <a href=\"https://bsky.app/profile/bph.social\">I&#8217;ll share photos on Bluesky</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p>Hey friends! ?✨ Get ready for an epic adventure at&nbsp;<strong>WordCamp Asia 2025</strong>&nbsp;in vibrant Manila!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I’ll be diving deep into the WordPress universe – hanging out at Contributor Day (February 20th) and rocking both conference days (February 21-22nd). Want to connect? I’m totally open to grabbing&nbsp;<strong>coffee, lunch, or catching up</strong>&nbsp;between sessions at the Philippine International Convention Center.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://bit.ly/bph-wcasia\">Check out my public calendar</a>&nbsp;and snag a slot – let’s turn this tech gathering into an unforgettable networking experience! Can’t wait to swap stories, share insights, and soak up the incredible WordPress community energy in the Philippines. Who’s in? ??? #WordCampAsia2025</p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s not all about grinding away! Alongside the <strong><a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/after-party/\">After Party</a></strong>, sponsors have got some cool <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/side-events/\"><strong>Side events</strong></a> lined up. Check out the list to see how you can join others for a fun run, a chill sunset hangout, Google&#8217;s Site Kit plugin workshop, or Omnisend&#8217;s agency meetup.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just today, WooCommerce announced its <a href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/woo-community-meetup-wcasia-2025-registration-1226560478409?aff=oddtdtcreator\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>Woo Community Meetup @ WCAsia 2025</strong></a>. </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contributor Day</h2>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"434\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Contributor-Day-WordCamp-Asia-2024.jpg?resize=652%2C434&ssl=1\" alt=\"Contributor Day at WordCamp Asia\" class=\"wp-image-37621\" />NATIONAL THEKTE PIRAUR\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/contributor-day/\"><strong>Contributor Day</strong></a> is always such a fun kickoff for me at a regional WordCamp. I finally get to hang out with the folks I&#8217;ve been teaming up with on Slack and GitHub for years, and now we can actually chill face-to-face. Some of them are old pals, while others are fresh faces who are already making waves in the open-source scene. Plus, it’s a lot easier to catch up with friends before we’re all swamped by 2,000 more people flooding into the conference center—otherwise, it’s just a nod, a smile, and a quick wave as we pass by each other!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Make sure you check out the chance to connect with a <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/human-library-books/\"><strong>Book in the Human Library</strong></a>! This awesome event lets you chat face-to-face with “<strong>Human Books</strong>,” folks who have some pretty amazing stories, unique viewpoints, and cool skills to share. You can ask me anything about Site Editor, Playground, Block development and contributing. My time slot is from 10:30 am to noon (12).</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a hard time selecting one of the 20 team tables, check out our&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/contribute/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>Contributor Wizard</strong></a>&nbsp;. It is a step-by-step wizard to help you decide which team might be a good fit for you!&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>On Contributor Day, you will find me at the <strong>Test Team table</strong>, and I will enjoy working with the table leads <strong>Krupa Nanda</strong> and <strong>Olga Gleckler</strong>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-accent-color has-light-background-background-color has-text-color has-background has-link-color wp-elements-f1b325b7cd203bbfaf0660781c26212b\">? <strong><em>Note:</em></strong><em> Appropriate attire is required for entry to PICC. Guests wearing shorts, undershirts (sando),or slippers/flip-flops will not be allowed to enter. PICC reserves the right to refuse entry to any person who is not appropriately </em>dressed.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Selected talks from the presentation schedule</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The WordPress community totally crushed it with over 250 proposals for talks and workshops! We’ve got three tracks lined up, and if you can’t swing by, no worries—everything will be livestreamed on YouTube. Since everyone’s got their own interests, it’s tough to pick just a few talks to mention in one go, so I&#8217;m sticking with my own favorites. All in all, the program team has put together a <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/schedule/\">fabulous schedule</a> featuring <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/speakers/\">awesome speakers</a> and cool topics. </p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Friday, February 21, 2025</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matias Ventura</strong> kicks off the talks with his <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/session/keynote/\"><strong>Keynote about the future of WordPress and Gutenberg.</strong></a>Ventura has been the lead architect of the Gutenberg project.  <em>TIL<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#79eea268-d46c-461a-8637-58e2a4c62d19\">1</a> that Ventura was one of the co-designers of the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/twentyeleven/\">Twenty Eleven default theme</a>.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>The rest for Friday morning I will spend at <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/session/the-block-developer-cookbook-wc-asia-2025-edition/\"><strong>Ryan Welcher&#8217;s Workshop: The Block Developer Cookbook</strong></a>. Welcher collected a few more real life examples on how to tackle topics like block transforms, adding editorial notes, creating a custom format and more. This year, I hope the keynote won&#8217;t go over, so everyone interested in the workshop has the opportunity to start it at the beginning.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Christy Nyiri</strong>, design lead at Special Project&#8217;s at Automattic, talk is next on my list. <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/session/redefining-wordpress-design-innovating-block-themes-on-automattics-special-projects-team/\"><strong>Redefining WordPress Design: Innovating Block Themes</strong></a>. Nyiri will showcase front and back end of a range of websites, highlighting how the team uses the latest WordPress feature to push the boundaries of block theme design. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>On the re-run, I will watch <strong>Abhishek Rijal</strong>&#8216;s lightning talk on <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/session/getting-started-with-wp-interactivity-api/\"><strong>Getting started with the Interactivity API.</strong></a> The senior software developer from Awesome Motive, explores the new possibilities this API brings to your Gutenberg blocks. I heard from quite a few developers who have a hard time finding a use case for the new API. </p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/session/wordpress-speed-build-challenge/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"368\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Speed-build-challenge-WordCamp-Asia-2025.jpg?resize=652%2C368&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-37631\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<p>The <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/session/wordpress-speed-build-challenge/\"><strong>WordPress Speed Build Challenge</strong></a> between <strong>Nick Diego </strong>and <strong>Jessica Lyschik,</strong> hosted by <strong>Jamie Marsland</strong>, starts us into the afternoon of the first day. If you are in Manila, I highly recommend being in the room for this spectacle! <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/open-your-possibilities-by-learning-from-the-experts-wordpress-speed-build/\">See also the article in the news</a> </p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\"><div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"652\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Do-the-woo-icon.jpg?resize=652%2C652&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-37630\" /></div>\n\n\n<p class=\"has-light-background-background-color has-background\">I’m wrapping up my first day by hanging out with <strong>BobWP</strong> and some other cool hosts from the <strong><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/\">Do The Woo Network</a></strong> at their sponsor booth. I’d totally love to see you there between 2 and 3 pm. Swing by and say hi! Can’t wait to meet you!</p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p>The rest of the afternoon, I’m planning to wander around the <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/sponsors/\">Sponsor hall</a> and chat with everyone at the booths. I’m truly interested to see which AI tools have popped up in the WordPress scene and what cool new products the plugin developers have come up with.</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"435\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Sponsor-hall-2024.jpg?resize=652%2C435&ssl=1\" alt=\"Sponsor hall WordCamp Asia \" class=\"wp-image-37629\" />Photo by Ryonosuke Kaneko\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Solutions Spotlight</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Another kind of presentation is listed under <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/solutions-spotlight/\"><strong>Solutions Spotlight</strong></a>;  short presentation from selected sponsors. Here is the schedule as of today. It might fill up more as we get closer to the event. </p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"236\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Screenshot-2025-02-05-at-13.55.41.png?resize=652%2C236&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-37620\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Saturday, February 22, 2025</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>After breakfast, I&#8217;m kicking off my Saturday with <strong>Riad Benguella</strong>&#8216;s talk on the <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/session/dataviews-and-dataforms-the-future-of-structured-content-in-wordpress/\"><strong>new DataViews and DataForms and the future of structured content in WordPress</strong></a>. Benguella&#8217;s gonna share the story of how these two cool APIs came to be and give us the scoop on how they’ll fit into the wp-admin redesign project, plus what we can look forward to down the line.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Autumn Fjeld and Candy Tsai</strong> are going to take the audience on a fun ride into <strong><a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/session/content-modeling-custom-post-types-and-custom-fields-in-the-block-editor/\">Content Modeling, Custom Post Types, and Custom Fields.</a></strong> Both of them have been playing around with block bindings and patterns. They’re aiming for a totally Editor-based way to manage custom data, and they even thought about creating a “take it to go” data model plugin. I mean, who else is wondering: is there life after the Advanced Custom Fields plugin?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Alongside the Data Model talk, <strong>Isotta Peira</strong> and <strong>Hari Shanker</strong> will chat about <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/session/wordpress-contributions-building-a-transparent-system-for-a-stronger-community/\"><strong>WordPress Contributions: Building a Transparent System for a Stronger Community</strong></a>. It’s a topic I really care about, so I might just head over there instead and catch the other talk later on YouTube.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>After the lunch break I will get ready for my presentation to <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/session/create-a-demo-with-playground/\"><strong>Create a demo with Playground</strong></a>. I chatted the other day with <strong>Roger Williams</strong> of Kinsta about the talk. </p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p>The last speaker slot goes to <strong>Matt Mullenweg</strong> who might again hold an AMA. So prepare your questions. </p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-cover alignwide is-light has-parallax is-repeated\"><div class=\"wp-block-cover__image-background wp-image-37639 size-large has-parallax is-repeated\"></div><span class=\"wp-block-cover__background has-background-dim\"></span><div class=\"wp-block-cover__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-cover-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-large-font-size\"></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"490\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Matt-Mullenweg-WordCamp-Asia-2024.jpg?resize=652%2C490&ssl=1\" alt=\"Matt Mullenweg at WordCamp Asia\" class=\"wp-image-37634\" />Photo by chiharu nagatomi\n</div></div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p>The <strong><a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/after-party/\">After Party</a></strong> will be a great place to unwind from three days of the WordCamp and to make more new friends at a true Filipino fiesta.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>On Sunday, the folks from WordCamp Asia will head out all over the globe, bringing along all the good vibes, tons of community energy, fresh ideas, and new pals to team up with, united in the purpose of democratizing publishing with WordPress. As they take their experiences and inspiration back home, you can bet they&#8217;ll be sharing stories about the incredible sessions they attended, the amazing connections they made, and the innovative projects they’re excited to launch. 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